Posts by Saenger

41) Message boards : The Lounge : The last who posts (***) before 1212 posts and before the year 2010 wins. (Message 13956) Posted 19 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: (secret word) Have I won now?
42) Message boards : Web interfaces : Team Fora on the projects (Message 13955) Posted 19 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: I think each project should have and display a list of team forums where new posts since last visit are flagged. The list should be linked from the project forum(s) index page(s) and/or from the project website's index page. I can see my SETI.Germany forum on the main forum page in BOINC Alpha, but not the other ones I know to exist. Perhaps the official mods have them all in their overview, that should make the fora quite unusable for them. On the other hand, if they don't look there it'll be a fine place to found some child molesters forum, as nobody will ever look there. Not a good idea imho, as responsibility for giving whatever criminal deeds are planned on the forum is ultimately with the admins of the project, who delivered them the place to meet. If anybody comes up with a usable implementation, come here or to the different mailing lists to show them. One that pops to my mind is perhaps the need for permission by the project admins to start this kind of thingy, best to be renewed at some later point, maybe automatically elongated time-spans: first 1 month, if no probs next 3 month, if still smooth, one year... Edit: As you can see, I have not crunched anything yet @Alpha, but I was able to become founder and start the forum, so anybody could probably do so @Seti.
43) Message boards : Web interfaces : Team Fora on the projects (Message 13945) Posted 19 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: I know, I begin to to look a bit like the permanent spoiler of all the new fun recently implemented, but... Have you really thought about the consequences of this new feature before implementing it? 1: As it's on the projects server, the content is ultimatly their responsibility, they have to monitor and moderate it. How is this possible if the new fora are not visible anywhere central? 2: As team changing is not restricted, I'll expect a lot of team hopping to post in other teams fora. How will this possible vandalism be dealt with? 3: As probably not all of 2: is vandalism but perhaps some curtesy visits, how to differentiate, or should this be possible at all? I think that most of the bigger teams will use this new possibility quite sensible, if at all, but you have to keep thousands of thousands of possible fora under supervision, and you probably are not even aware of it, or have the time to do this moderation stuff.
44) Message boards : Web interfaces : More Questions to BOINC wide teams (Message 13924) Posted 17 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: And it contains something weird ... it contains the "crypted" email address of the founder - using this extremely secure rot13 encryption. I can't say it's that secure. With the help of my 'munged' email address I can decode the email address of everyone else. I don't think Ananas really thought it was anything even remotely like secure, he put the sarcasm tags just not prominent enough in this post. It's what I said briefly im my first ticket (#409) and a bit more elaborate in my second one (#455) about this feature: Either you use a valid email address to have the possibility ti change the data on the new projects where the team is autofounded, than it should not be made available to everybody who claims to have a BOINC project, and is perhaps just a email harvesting spammer, or you use some fake address, like me@there.org or such, and will never get access to your new teams on any of the new projects. I have the impression that there are very different levels of conscience about what's private data that has to be secured first, even with severe loss of convenience, and what's just neglectable nice-to-have, but nothing to really protect. Imho my email address is something of my core private data, that must not be shared with anybody without my explicit prior consent. And it's the duty of those who have it in their DB to protect it and nor give it away freely. The changing of policy in regard of private data is only possible with explicit consent, not just "S/he didn't complain, so s/he complied" but a new confirmed "Yes, I agree", silence must be interpreted as "No, I disagree".
45) Message boards : Web interfaces : More Questions to BOINC wide teams (Message 13890) Posted 16 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: Edit 2: I've created my first team thread in my first team forum @ BOINC Alpha: http://isaac.ssl.berkeley.edu/alpha/forum_forum.php?id=13 Dunno how you did that, but it would seem my forum has gone up in smoke. Can't see or find it anywhere. ;) Go to your team page, there's the link at the bottom of the information, just above the member list.
46) Message boards : Web interfaces : More Questions to BOINC wide teams (Message 13888) Posted 16 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: ... And it's done, ladies and gentleman. [trac]changeset:14218[/trac]. Ouch ! Anyone can view a team message board In this case, the concerns of mo.v and Pepo are rectified of course. And anyone can join a team, post there in the board and leave again. It's not up to the founders or team admins to decide who may or may not join. Fine, I think it's time to buy the popcorn machine to watch the inevitabole flamewars ;)
47) Message boards : Web interfaces : More Questions to BOINC wide teams (Message 13886) Posted 15 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: And it's done, ladies and gentleman. [trac]changeset:14218[/trac]. When will this madness end? What an absolutely dumb feature, futile and will only bring new stress and flames to the fora. What I said on a previous post seems to fit perfectly here. I have a question in regard of the proliferation of this "feature" (in the Billy Gates sense of this word): Will projects, who like to keep their server up to date have an option to include this or will it be an inherent part of any newer BOINC server software? As I a) don't run a project and b) am not even a software dev, I'd like to know how easy it will be for the projects to avoid this mess. Edit: And where's the best place to warn them about this? Edit 2: I've created my first team thread in my first team forum @ BOINC Alpha: http://isaac.ssl.berkeley.edu/alpha/forum_forum.php?id=13
48) Message boards : Web interfaces : More Questions to BOINC wide teams (Message 13884) Posted 15 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: There are thousands and thousands of teams, some with only one or two members. Will boinc be creating, or enabling the creation of, thousands and thousands of forums for all these teams? And it's done, ladies and gentleman. [trac]changeset:14218[/trac]. When will this madness end? What an absolutely dumb feature, futile and will only bring new stress and flames to the fora.
49) Message boards : Web interfaces : Question to BOINC-wide Teams (Message 13882) Posted 15 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: Idea .... If you setup your BOINC team with a general e-mail address (different from your project team founder e-mail address), then your team (by-the-same-name) on individual projects will not get updated. If your team doesn't exist on a project (or new project), then your team name will get created with your general e-mail address. After team created, then you should be able to change founder's e-mail address to the individual who acts as team founder for THAT project. That's how we will probably do it. We thought about it several times, but originally decided against it. Now we are forced to do so, as if we will not use this BOINC wide teams, anyone can found a team called SETI.Germany on that list and we have even less control over it. As David finally gave us our team back, we can now use it in this manner, unfortunately it took over a month because he didn't bother to ask us first is and how we liked to participate. In the projects set up after this implementation it will take us another month before we will have the team back via "initiate transfer" of the founder to some real persons.
50) Message boards : Web interfaces : OpenSocial for BOINC webpages (Message 13873) Posted 15 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: (p.s.: Saenger didn't roll a cigarette while typing, that's why he was faster) How do you know for sure? ;) If anything I would have prepared a pipe, but that's some 3 years over now as well ;)
51) Message boards : Web interfaces : OpenSocial for BOINC webpages (Message 13870) Posted 15 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: A "buddy list" was planned like last year, although it never materialized in code. Should it be welcome? I mean, the "buddies" in your BOINC system are your team partners, are there? Not really, not alone, and especially not as an integral part of a mainly scientific project. My buddies can come from different teams. I can be on not-my-buddy terms with members of my team in a big one. Social networking is a nice add-on for BOINC, but no integral part and certainly not the centre.
52) Message boards : Web interfaces : OpenSocial for BOINC webpages (Message 13853) Posted 15 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: Do you have examples of social networking attempts under BOINC servers? - outsourcing the mailing lists to Google - expanding the team functionalities with loss of privacy - inventing a mailing system without prior consent of the users - tailoring the search functions to make spamming of teamless crunchers easier
53) Message boards : Web interfaces : Person requesting Founder Transfer leaves team (Message 13851) Posted 15 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: @Saenger : Can you even list the email addresses or the team history of all members? Imo. that should give you the same error. I've got to ask our admins, I'm neither admin nor founder @Seti (only on 23 other;). Sorry, can't edit any more, here's the answer: E-Mail Adressen der Mitglieder bei welchem Projekt ? Wenn du Seti meinst, da erscheint dieser Fehler: Zitat: Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 33 bytes) in /disks/setifiler1/home/boincadm/projects/sah/html/inc/db_conn.inc on line 61 __________________
54) Message boards : Web interfaces : Person requesting Founder Transfer leaves team (Message 13850) Posted 15 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: @Saenger : Can you even list the email addresses or the team history of all members? Imo. that should give you the same error. I've got to ask our admins, I'm neither admin nor founder @Seti (only on 23 other;).
55) Message boards : Web interfaces : More Questions to BOINC wide teams (Message 13834) Posted 14 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: From Google, posted by Mr. Anderson: The Google group is better publicized now. For a low-traffic or sporadic group (which boinc-team-founders has been) I think an email list is better than a message board. Let's return to the original issue: how to empower BOINC teams, and make them into a more effective recruitment/retention/publicity mechanism for volunteer computing. We've added some new features recently. I'm currently working on extending the BOINC message-board system so that each team can have its own forum on the project's site. Any other ideas/suggestions? -- DPA
56) Message boards : Web interfaces : Mailing lists vs. Forum vs. Google: Why use what? (Message 13824) Posted 14 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: From the actual mailing lists, posted by didactylos: Dr Anderson is right: searching the list archives is almost impossible. Uwe Herzke is right: creating a poorly publicised Google Group does little to help. Can we have a go at solving the root of the problem? Off the top of my head, I can see 4 or 5 alternatives. 1. Fix the Mailman functionality. I'm fairly sure I've seen Mailman extended with better searching. Note: I may be thinking of Pipermail. 2. Migrate all the mailing lists to new Google groups. Pro: easy. Con: totally disconnected from BOINC; needs separate user accounts etc. 3. Create BOINC forums using the BOINC forum software, alongside the existing dev forums. Pro: the devil you know. Con: the developers don't seem to like using the dev forums, much. 4. Use the wiki. Pro: it would encourage people to create tickets for bugs. Con: people would probably create tickets for everything else, too. 5. Extend Trac with a discussion plugin. I know at least one such exists ( http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/DiscussionPlugin ). This is my personal preference. Pro: strong integration with Trac, and trac/wiki formatting/linking. Con: difficult or impossible to import the mailing list archive. (This con also applies to 3, 4 and probably 2.) Comments? David Barnard
57) Message boards : Web interfaces : More Questions to BOINC wide teams (Message 13820) Posted 14 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: The announcement should have been made at least in all team recruitment threads in all projects. BOINC and projects are two separate entities. The BOINC developers don't need to go by on all project forums to check out bugs or give information; what's more normal and expected is that people using BOINC will pass by on the BOINC News page and see what changed. This feature was nothing concerning the proper working of BOINC but about the changing of the social network aspects throughout the projects. Some few users (probably even some team founders) had an idea to change the behaviour of the project <-> user <-> team interactions, some not really core BOINC issue. After some research I found that it was probably discussed first at the 3rd pan-galactic BOINC workshop and on the private forum www.boincteams.com. It was not even announced that some change is gonna come anywhere here in a place to look for information, like news, the mail lists or this forum. The intention was to do something for "the teams", but as there is no natural place for "the teams" to meet, for such severe changes a maximum number of teams should have been involved, and quite a lot should have been done by those who wanted this changes to include as much teams (and their "leaders") in this discussion as possible. They, who wanted this changes had to be pro-active imho. The teams were included in this feature without being asked first whether they wanted to participate or not, the profiles had simply been copied and pasted from one specific project (Seti, why not Einstein or CPDN?) without permission from the team admins. It was implemented without any notice as well, all of a sudden teams were created automatically in the new project NQueens, most affected teams had never heard of this feature, with at least two teams the "founder" was someone not really in this position any longer. The affected teams were not quite amused by this of course and reacted perhaps a bit harsh, but we had enough reasons to be angry imho. The feature was announced first 2 weeks after implementation, it was discussed in an unknown place at Google, trac tickets were not answered properly, questions here were not answered as well.
58) Message boards : Web interfaces : Mailing lists vs. Forum vs. Google: Why use what? (Message 13814) Posted 14 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: David Anderson has posted in the Boinc_dev mailing list, that he intends to outsource the discussions to Google because his own servers don't give him all the necessary functions. What are the problems with this forum and the mailing lists, that have to be solved by outsourcing? Should Rytis, Nicolas, Ananas, mo.v, Ageless etc. stop developping this boards, as it seems they should become obsolete in the haed admins mind?
59) Message boards : Web interfaces : More Questions to BOINC wide teams (Message 13811) Posted 14 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: But in the case of the boinc-wide team initiative, they probably knew in advance that they would need to communicate directly with potential users of this facility. So they created a different venue. I agree that a proliferation of different forums is inconvenient. The more forums are created, the more crunchers will get lost on the way and never find some of them. But I'm sure the Google group was set up with every good intention. Normally, Google groups aren't my preferred area of the web. But the existence of this discussion group has been clearly announced and linked to, and I believe that anyone is free to register. This is just my personal interpretation of how the situation has arisen and why. Where and when was this group announced? It only appeared yesterday in the list of mailing list, that's two month after the implementation, if it was really discussed probably half a year after the first brainstorming. AFAIK only some few handful of people knew of the existence of this group, probably not even the founders of the Top100 teams, and I see no reason why not invite at least the Top 10,000 founders in all projects, not only Seti. The announcement should have been made at least in all team recruitment threads in all projects. Why was there a need for a different venue? Why was the second biggest team in BOINC not invited? Why was it not announced here and on the homepage in bold letters? Where all web code developers part of the new invented group? Why not simply set up a new mailing list and/or a posting restricted part in this forum here? Was it tested in some beta environment before it was put in the open and new projects were "infected"? The only reason that comes to my mind is, that he didn't want this discussed in the open. The loss of volunteers was intended, no more unwashed masses, fine atmosphere in the ivory tower. Most of the defects were no surprise imho, but clearly to be seen before if it would have been discussed before implementation. Of course only if you don't do this discussion with some hand selected people who will show no dissent. Edit: I posted the first heavy bugs here in this forum on 15. September, same goes for trac. The new feature was first announced on the BOINC homepage as a news on 24. September, about two weeks after it's implementation. The Google group was never annonced in the news, let alone in any other project information area.
60) Message boards : The Lounge : Testing Stuff (Message 13801) Posted 13 Nov 2007 by Saenger Post: Saenger, when you edit your board preferences, switch to ISO-8859-2 and then fix your sig :-) Been there, done that :) THX!

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