Posts by Paul D. Buck

21) Message boards : Web interfaces : Mauritius - Missing country for account information (Message 2653)
Posted 17 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
I sent off a direct question, no idea if it will happen though ...
22) Message boards : BOINC Manager : Client update (Message 2652)
Posted 17 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
As stated, the Science Applications that processes the work will be maintained by the project and automatically changed as needed.

The BOINC Client Software is manually changed because automatic updates has a high risk of breaking things. *MY* recommendation to people is to be slow and cautious on updating the BOINC Client Software if it is currently working for you.

For example, I am using 5.2.13 and find it stable; others have problems with it. These problems concentrate in the networking area and are the subject of intense investigation. New development versions are being developed to try to fix the known issues. Soon we may have 5.4.x, or a new 5.2.14 to try. If you are running 5.2.13, and it works, stick with it until there is a compelling reason to upgrade to the newer version.

Then try it slowly ... :)
23) Message boards : BOINC client : Bug with AMD 64x2 and Cool'n'Quiet (Message 2646)
Posted 17 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
I hate to say this, but it sounds more like a bug in cool and quiet to me ...

If cool n quiet is supposed to "kick up the voltage" and it is not doing so when required, and a crash results, that is an issue with cool n quiet.

Most people running BOINC also usually turn off cool n quiet as it slows down processing of results and therefore is somewhat contrary to the point of running BOINC in the background.
24) Message boards : BOINC Manager : Boinc Projects running simunstanialy on second PCBOINC PROJECTS RUNNING SIMULTANEOUSLY ON SECOND PC (Message 2645)
Posted 17 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
You did not answer the question ... :)

When you installed BOINC, did you install it as a service? If so, on windows you have to enable the software/service interaction with the desktop.

The settings of the screen saver are independent of this, as is the setting of the use of processors.

25) Message boards : BOINC Manager : Boinc Projects running simunstanialy on second PCBOINC PROJECTS RUNNING SIMULTANEOUSLY ON SECOND PC (Message 2636)
Posted 16 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
If you installed as a service you have to do one more step to enable the graphics. THere is a procedure for that in the Wiki's How-To guides...
26) Message boards : BOINC client : Won't connect to localhost (Message 2592)
Posted 14 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
The problem is the 800-pound gorilla, as usual, does not follow procedure. The ports they grab have been reserved and they should not be touching them.

But, because it will be nearly impossible for UCB to get Microsoft to follow the rules, they have asked for a new port reservation that should be sufficiently out of the way that it should not get pre-empted ...

So, yes, a fix is in the works ...
27) Message boards : BOINC client : Switch Between Applications Every (x) Minutes (Message 2585)
Posted 14 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
Darkstar,

Well, those that complain are, ahem, well, we won't call them names. But, that is anticipated in the design and why the option is there...

I use default, School and Work as allocations with my PowerMac G5 in Work, my two Xeons in School and the rest work off default (no point of creating home), which would be the P4s and AMD systems.

On the G5, I am 77% EAH, 10% SAH, 10% RAH and 3% SDG
Xeons are 25% CPDN, 25% EAH, 25% RAH, 20% WCG, 3% SDG, and 2% PG
Rest are 10% CPDN, 5% SAH, 35% EAH, 25% RAH, 3% SDG, 20% WCG, and 2% PG

My current goal is to get WCG over SDG and PG, and EAH over SAH. When I get the first, I will reduce WCG, probably to 5-10% and put that additional back to EAH on all but the G5 (which cannot do WCG yet). When LHC has work, not sure what I will do ... but they will get time from somewhere ... :)

In general, I don't have the switch time higher as the "turbulence" in the systems makes it pointless right now. On the Xeons I am using the 1/4 splits to try to limit switching and is works somewhat. But, the tendency is to switch in and out of projects with the system tending to be running CPDN on one CPU and the other 3 on one of the other projects until it switches because of the time or completion of one work unit.

Hopefully, when JM VII finishes the next set of CPU Scheduler fixes the "Only switch Idle CPU" fix will be in place and I can get into testing that. At that point I will put one of the Xeons back on the 2 hour schedule and one on a longer switch time to test the change. If it does as I expect, I will likely increase switching time on all my systems ...

On leaving work in memory, if the computer is on and running and has 512 or more memory, there is likely little penalty except on task change, and that penalty will be less than paging it in off disk ...
28) Message boards : BOINC client : Won't connect to localhost (Message 2584)
Posted 14 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
The first one I would try is to suspend the process and see if it does kill internet access. If it does, then you do need it. If it doesn't, go into control panel, services and set it to manual and reboot. Make sure you can connect to the internet and test to see if BOINC starts ...
29) Message boards : BOINC client : Does BOINC affect a network? (Message 2570)
Posted 13 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
Henry,

I also pointed you to the front page of this site where there is a link to contact information.

I will also say that you are PROBABLY not going to get an answer that has much more information than we have given you. Quite simply the effect is negligable and no one has measured it, or is likely to.

This is not streaming video, this is not internet radio, it is an exchange of data files which in most cases are small. Exceptions are Einstein@Home where the file is 10M in size down, but used for multiple work units and CPDN which is up to 600M something at model completion.

When you average THAT out over the time spent, 60-90 days RUN TIME for CPDN it is not all that large averaged over time.

If he needs more accurate measurements, why not do the only test that is valid. Set it up, run it and measure it on YOUR system. Networks vary considerably, so do loads, the only valid test is going to be on YOUR network.

Note that the connect times can be limited to off-work hours if desired. As can the running of the application itself.

-----
As far as sensitivity, well, perhaps I was oversensitive. But, you request for someone " if there's anyone working for BOINC or SETI or someone who has qualifications to comment on the sofwtare" is, in my opinion, pretty condescending. Especially when the first guy to answer your question is pretty qualified.

BOINC, like many open source project is heavily supported by volunteer effort. In some cases the volunteers actually know more than the "official" people. There really is not decent "official" documentation. What there is of it is on this site. And I can tell you that your question is not covered there. *MY* Unofficial documentation also does not cover it.

Anyway, look for Dr. Anderson's e-mail address on the contact link.

==== edit

Oh, and any software that contacts the Internet can compromise security. The threat form BOINC is, however, again quite negligable as compared to IE or Outlook ... I have not heard of a single exploit to date using BOINC or the infrastructure.
30) Message boards : BOINC client : Switch Between Applications Every (x) Minutes (Message 2563)
Posted 13 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
*MY* experience is that 60 min is a "reasonable" setting for most purposes. Since I would rather "drive" work to completion I usually have a higher setting. Unfortunately, the effect I described earlier thwarts my effort somewhat.

If you have a single CPU system and set this to, say, 4 hours, for the most part you would complete work before changing project to work on something new. Obvious exceptsions would be for work that takes longer than 4 hours.

If you would tell us more ... we might be able to tell you more in return ... like, speed of the system, projects, etc.

For example, I have 9 systems with 1 to 4 CPUs (20 total) each machine has 4-7 projects running with various resource shares with either 2 or 4 hour switch times and resource shares allocated to projects in the basic order EAH, RAH, WCG, CPDN, SAH, SDG, and PG ... with values from 1% to 77% (well, 2% to 77% for a limited time I think).
31) Message boards : BOINC client : Switch Between Applications Every (x) Minutes (Message 2553)
Posted 12 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
In very simple terms, it checks at that interval and decides what to run next. There are minor issues with it, particularly on multi-CPU systems and JM VII is on the case.

If work is forcing EDF, that changes things slightly...

There are other activities that can cause the CPU scheduler to switch, including downloading work, user updates, end of a result computation, etc. BUt, to put a "cap" on it so that it does not stay there forever, the time was placed there ...

WIth multiple CPUs, with 60 min setting the average switch time was about 15 minutes, 120 got you out to about 20 minutes ... 4 hours to about 30 min or so ... so, it is not a perfect thing yet.

I don't recall where we talk about this in the Wiki, I know I had a blurp on it in the old Web Site Owner's Manual (which is linked to from the Wiki front page) and it was the preferences page where you set it ... start your reading there ... hopefully some day soon I will finish moving the old Web Site Owner's Manual into the Wiki ...
32) Message boards : BOINC client : Does BOINC affect a network? (Message 2548)
Posted 12 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
I am amazed that such a huge project does not have an 'administrator' team available or at least some documents to reference that indicate whether or not the software is 'safe' to install and run.
I have even failed to find a contact person for either BOINC or SETI.
So thanks to those knowledgable people who offer their opinions which are valued.
However I do need concrete facts for my network admin so if there's anyone working for BOINC or SETI or someone who has qualifications to comment on the sofwtare I would appreciate hearing from them.

The project is "huge" only in our imaginations. BOINC and the SETI@Home team is, I think, a total of 6 paid people. THey have to do all the science, keep the machines running, write the software, and all the other tasks, oh and write proposals to get funding ...

Thus, they rely on volunteers in the spirit of open source. You can find contacts information on the front page of this site and send an e-mail, ask on the mailing lists, or here.

In almost all cases, the answer you are going to get comes from people like you that are participants, but, who *DO* have the knowledge. John Keck is one of the most knowledgeble people on the boards ...

All that said, I run a network of 9 computers, 24/7 most of the computers do nothing other than BOINC, the primary network is a standard 11G wireless to a 100 M link to the cable modem, with my workstations on a small 1G LAN segment (3 computers of the 9). So, the bulk of my machines have at most 100Mb connection or less run BOINC *AND* BOINC View as a monitor, now NetDimes, and I see *ZERO* impact on the network.

As John said, most of the time, the only time there may be a "load" is when downloading the application files, and in some cases the Work Unit Data File. Most of the time (CPDN excepted) the return Result Data File is only a couple kilobites in size. There is information in the Wiki about projects, file sizes and machine configurations.

So, if none of this is concrete enough ...

Oh, and my qualifications, 20 Years in the USN doing Aviionic repair using Automated Test Equipment, AA Equivelent in Electrical Engineering, BS in Computer Science (Summa Cum Laude), MS in Software Engineering, 10 years experience in Systems Engineering for the USAF (civil service), and, lets see, 2 1/2 years studying BOINC, writing/editing the BOINC Wiki (and predicessor sites) and commenting on the BOINC System. If necessary I can e-mail my resume ...

Forgive the sarcasm, but your dismissal of a correct answer was very condescending...
33) Message boards : BOINC client : BOINC Consuming Memory and CPU (Message 2547)
Posted 12 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
Ronald,

This is as designed. And was the way that SETI@Home Classic worked. IF you do not want it to run while you are using the computer. Change your preference of "work while computer is in use" to no ... set the delay timer. THen use update on the BOINC Manager for the project changed, and now, BOINC and the Science Application will only run when you are not doing anything.
34) Message boards : BOINC client : when do we get credit? (Message 2542)
Posted 12 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
Also search the wiki for "upload process" which explains that part of the puzzle ...

The Wiki is your friend ... :)
35) Message boards : BOINC Manager : Updating BOINC and BONC Behavior... (Message 2541)
Posted 12 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
Even if you have the BOINC manager available/running, it uses a negligable amount of CPU unless it is open, then it it usually barely detectable, almost always under 1% and that is with the window open (4% while opening).

In any case, closing the window, installing as a service and exiting the BOINC Manager will make least impact on the system. You could also use threadmaster to reserve some "headroom" under all cases.
36) Message boards : BOINC client : Won't connect to localhost (Message 2514)
Posted 11 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
It sure sounds to me like your BOINC Daemon was not started. Not running, there is nothing for the BOINC Manager to connect to. I am pretty sure this was one of the suggestions below.

In most versions of windows you can CTL-ALT-DEL and pull up a process list and check. There are cases where, for whatever reason the Daemon will not start but the BOINC Manager will.

When you clicked on the file, you started BOINC Daemon and as you said, back in business.
37) Message boards : BOINC client : Scheduling Needs Project Out-of-work Flag Kept in Client (Message 2513)
Posted 11 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
Basing dial-up connection on upload/download speed is not accurate either. I could simply have a heavily loaded "always on" connection.
38) Message boards : BOINC Manager : I miss the old SETI@Home (Message 2512)
Posted 11 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
Which is basically my point. Old SETI worked fine, BOINC doesn't. Therefore BOINC = backwards step IMO.

Neither project wants participants to run the system on computers not owned by the participants. As others have said, use of BOINC or SETI@Home classic on a computer for which you do not have permission to run these programs is out of the bounds of intended use.
39) Message boards : BOINC Manager : I miss the old SETI@Home (Message 2491)
Posted 10 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
I miss the old SETI becuase it was simple to use, worked through my firewall without problems and very rarely went wrong.

BOINC is a step backwards IMO.

I miss OS/2 and was seriously disappointed when Microsoft shafted their partner IBM to release a less effective windows 3 ...
40) Message boards : BOINC client : Wait for checkpoint before changeing the application (Message 2489)
Posted 10 Jan 2006 by Paul D. Buck
Post:
We have lots of notes ... :)

For many projects, checkpointing is easy and fast. SETI@Home is lucky this way.

CPDN takes long enough to checkpoint that 15 minutes is a reasonable compromise. I don't know enough about Rosetta@Home to comment on the issues there.

Fundamentally, though, restarting at the checkpoint is the only alternative. Whether or not the stop was because the participant turned off the computer, it crashed, etc.

And we have been trying to convince the "powers that be" that splitting the connect interval and the queue/buffer size is a good idea (TM) ... so far no luck as far as I know.


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