Posts by Nick Name

1) Message boards : Projects : Rosetta or Folding@home? (Message 96894)
Posted 17 days ago by Nick Name
Post:
Why not do both, Rosetta on CPU and FAH on GPU? At the present time though it appears FAH is out of work so you might only have Rosetta work available. FAH has been overwhelmed by so many people signing up.
2) Message boards : Projects : Coronavirus projects? (Message 96846)
Posted 18 days ago by Nick Name
Post:
A list of the projects we're aware of is here.
Folding@Home is pushing a lot of COVID-19 work now if you can get it. Their servers are overwhelmed by all the compute power that's come online in the last few days. That's causing problems both getting and returning work, at least for GPU clients. Work assignment is also buggy, the client can get hung on a server that's not responding or issuing work and won't move on to another. I've set up exclusions in BOINC so that if my machine can't get FAH work, BOINC will resume. If you can put up with these quirks the work has run without any problems for me.
3) Message boards : Questions and problems : How would "Resource Share" number work in this case? (Message 96845)
Posted 18 days ago by Nick Name
Post:
WHAT!! MW gpu apps work fine here on RTX cards. Always has.

I'm guessing a mix-up between Asteroids which doesn't work on RTX, and MilkyWay which does as far as I know.

re. the question about resource share, it shouldn't matter as long as it's greater than zero, but I would just leave them equal. You can always adjust later if you add more projects.
4) Message boards : BOINC Manager : Manual suspend keeps getting reset (Message 96261)
Posted 2 Mar 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
Or suspend a task, after which Boinc decides to load more tasks from that same project.
No. Work fetch from a given project is inhibited if a task from that project is suspended.

You mean, if the project is suspended.
If there's one paused task in queue, the client still redownloads more, until it has enough tasks to satisfy it's daily task buffer (eg preload tasks for 1 day, and there'll be a whole list of tasks it will download).

I haven't seen that behavior, however I have seen this, many times:

3/2/2020 12:32:49 AM | Amicable Numbers | Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks.
3/2/2020 12:32:49 AM | Amicable Numbers | Reporting 1 completed tasks
3/2/2020 12:32:49 AM | Amicable Numbers | Not requesting tasks: some task is suspended via Manager
3/2/2020 12:32:51 AM | Amicable Numbers | Scheduler request completed

Richard is correct, and this has been how BOINC works for as long as I can remember.
5) Message boards : GPUs : Big ask - auto throttling of CPU tasks when using GPUs? (Message 96246)
Posted 1 Mar 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
There's no way to "automatically" do what you want or do any dynamic load balancing, at least within BOINC itself. The easiest thing to do is lower your CPU usage limit. BOINC will typically over-commit the CPU when running GPU work, e.g. if BOINC is set to use four CPU threads and you have two GPUs BOINC will run six jobs in total. I take this into account and set CPU use so the number of jobs doesn't exceed the CPU thread count.
6) Message boards : GPUs : PCI express risers to use multiple GPUs on one motherboard - not detecting card? (Message 96245)
Posted 1 Mar 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
One, because the higher end GPUs don't need to run at their rated power to do the tasks.
Two, because higher end GPUs have more cores.
Three, because their performance is nearly identical (with overclock) at 20-60% power cap, vs stock.
Running at stock wattage, the GPU frequency is limited. By cutting power and overclocking, you can get close to this performance, at a fraction of the power. If you run 3 GPUs, capped at 35-40% power cap, you can add a fourth one and still use the same amount of power at the wall, but with 25% extra performance.
And four, doubling up on Einstein jobs on a high end GPU, is an easy way to fully utilize the GPU.

Using a smaller GPU will perform a lot slower. For instance, the 2080Ti is about twice as fast as a 2060 on low intensity tasks. The 2060 uses 125W out of 170W stock, the 2080 Ti does it at 150W. Multiply the 125W by 2, to get similar performance as the 2080 Ti, and it's easy to see how the 2080Ti is much more efficient (at similar performance levels).

For high intensity tasks, or two tasks per GPU, a 2060 will run at 140-150W, while a 2080 Ti does it at 190-220W.
Usually high intensity tasks also have qrb (quick return bonus), which seem to favor higher end GPUs over multiple lower speed ones.

I'll have to revisit this as the last time I spent any significant time testing this was on Pascal 1080 and this kind of performance wasn't possible. Performance started to degrade more than I was willing to tolerate around an 80% power limit and I was not able to recover any by overclocking. Even a 10 mhz overclock at that limit sent invalids skyrocketing. I have limited a Radeon VII to this extent but there I have control over voltage which helped stabilize things.
7) Message boards : GPUs : PCI express risers to use multiple GPUs on one motherboard - not detecting card? (Message 96227)
Posted 1 Mar 2020 by Nick Name
Post:

I don't run them beyond 225W, as for smaller projects (like Einstein) they would hit past their max rated GPU frequency (sometimes 2200-2400Mhz) and crash the task; or go into limp mode (1350Mhz) and do it very slow.

Why not just buy a lower power card if you're going to limit the power so severely?
8) Message boards : Questions and problems : Questions about running BOINC (Message 96163)
Posted 28 Feb 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
1. I have SETI@Home and World Community Grid as my projects. I have an 8 core CPU and an Nvidia graphics card. Right now, BOINC will use all 8 cores for World Community Grid and the SETI task is using my graphics card and a portion of one core. How do I get a balance to where each project is using 4 cores? Is that even possible?

The only way to get this specific control is to run multiple clients. You would then set each client to only use four cores, and attach one to WCG and the other to SETI. It can be done but it's not really worth it just for this. BOINC will balance the two pretty well over time, but think in terms of days or weeks, not hours.

2. Is it faster for BOINC to process tasks on a Linux-based OS or Windows 10? If a Linux-based OS, is there a preference?

BOINC Manager 7.14.2
Windows 10
I've said the projects above.
I've installed BOINC as a service.

I"ve seen little difference in CPU work, but the latest AMD CPUs with higher core counts might show a significant difference. There can be a substantial difference in GPU work due to Windows WDDM which adds significant overhead. SETI is a bit unusual in that there is a special app that only runs on Nivida cards under Linux, it's orders of magnitude faster than anything on Windows. The gain is partly due to Linux advantages and partly due to highly optimized programming.

It's interesting you say you are running GPU work with BOINC installed as a service. My understanding is that hasn't worked since BOINC version 6.
9) Message boards : Questions and problems : Hi, I'm new to BOINC. I have some question from my noob perspective. (Message 96052)
Posted 25 Feb 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
1) What do you think BOINC and blockchain(or cryptocurrency) have in common?

Nothing directly.
2) I read about VC from wikipedia and BOINC from the article(BOINC: A Platform for Volunteer Computing), and I found that there are no actual merits for the participants who provide their computing device.

"Actual merits" depends on what you mean. Recognition for contributions to research does exist in some projects, e.g. GPUGrid lists publications your computer(s) has contributed to. Most projects give badges based on your contribution, how much value you think that has depends on your perspective.
2.1 The existing commercial clouds maintain and provide their computing power for money.

This is actually partly why BOINC exists. Many projects are short on money and BOINC provides a way to access pretty powerful computing resources at relatively low cost.
2.2 The blockchain participants participate for rewards(coin)
Then why do the VC participants provide their computing devices? I'd really like to know.
Are they just enjoying donating or is there any kind of reward that I don't know?
Thank you.

Gridcoin, which uses blockchain technology, was built on top of BOINC and does provide a - these days very small - financial reward for running BOINC. You can look into the details on it further on your own if you wish. For most of those folks obviously the potential monetary gain is the primary motivation for running BOINC. For the rest of us, it's more or less a hobby but one we find worthwhile. I think most participants have interests in both technology and science, and BOINC is a neat way to combine the two. The team component has added further interest as competitions and challenges have been created over the years and a lot of people really enjoy that. In short, what you're asking is really no different than why people build hot rods, do woodcraft or anything else. BOINC however actually might help to change the world one day. The ultimate reward for many of us is helping advance science for the benefit of humanity.
10) Message boards : Questions and problems : Manager without client (Message 95849)
Posted 14 Feb 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
The only Android client I'm aware of that allowed remote management was NativeBOINC. Unfortunately development stopped several years ago. I have several ARM boards myself that are idle partly because of this problem.
11) Message boards : Questions and problems : Manager without client (Message 95797)
Posted 11 Feb 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
You can control remote clients with the standard manager.

https://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Controlling_BOINC_remotely

You can only control one at a time. BOINCTasks is designed to show/manage multiple clients together, which is why it's a better option if you need to manage multiple clients. You do have to install WINE if you want to run it on a Linux machine as there's not a native Linux app. You can use it on a Windows machine to control Linux clients, no problem.

I'd forgotten about it but there is also boinctui for Debian distros.
12) Message boards : Questions and problems : Manager without client (Message 95750)
Posted 8 Feb 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
The best option especially for monitoring multiple hosts/clients is BOINCTasks under WINE.

https://forum.efmer.com/index.php?topic=745.0
13) Message boards : Teams : Private Message Send Timeout (Message 95533)
Posted 27 Jan 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
I'm trying to PM some teammates (specifically on Universe@Home) and keep getting hit with a message basically saying I'm sending too many messages too quickly and I have to wait. Leaving aside the fact that this is pretty annoying when I want to PM several dozen team members, how long does this timeout last? It's definitely longer than five minutes which in my opinion is more than adequate.

I can PM the entire team on Universe, but in this particular case my preference is to contact members individually. On some projects there is not an option to PM the entire team and in such cases the timeout is an extreme nuisance.
14) Message boards : Questions and problems : Not downloading tasks (Message 95225)
Posted 17 Jan 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
I meant as a manager, not so much for crunching. The standard BOINC manager on any Windows machine would work as long as you know how to set it up but I find BoincTasks a lot easier to use as a remote manager.
15) Message boards : Questions and problems : Not downloading tasks (Message 95197)
Posted 16 Jan 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
The pressure is coming from the big Linux distribution managers, which seem to be academic and research based. They took the menus out of the BOINC code, and after some pressure I got them put back into BOINC. So the Linux people took them out at the distribution packaging stage...
Presumably that means rolling our own still keeps them in?
I think it does, yes.

Is BoincTasks under WINE a viable alternative?
16) Message boards : Questions and problems : Why doesn't Boinc schedule earlier deadlines first? (Message 94959)
Posted 14 Jan 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
I'd like a setting in cc_config to force jobs to run to completion once they start.

You can do that by changing the "switch between tasks every" parameter. I change from the default of 60 minutes to 360 minutes so that a GPUGrid job runs to completion and never exits or suspends. The application can't handle restarting on a different device in a mixed type gpu configuration and the switch parameter is how I get around the issue.

Thanks, I'm aware of that setting and while it sometimes works that way it's not quite the same. As Richard said, "Switch between tasks' is permissive, not directive [emphasis mine]- BOINC may switch tasks after this minimum interval, but doesn't have to." I would say it's a guide not a rule, and that's why I'd like the cc_config option. I've seen this setting ignored many times over the years even with this parameter set to values far above application run times. When I checked it was set to 240, I'm not sure if that's the default or I might have changed it and forgotten. Brada run times are usually around three hours max on this host, so 240 minutes is more than enough to keep them running to completion. That job never should have been suspended if this setting worked as expected, especially with deadline pressure but it happened. I increased it to 720 to basically match my cache setting but in past experience setting values this high hasn't had the desired effect.
17) Message boards : Questions and problems : Why doesn't Boinc schedule earlier deadlines first? (Message 94927)
Posted 13 Jan 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
Rob & Richard,

I'm aware of everything you have said. I'm particularly aware of the limitations of Switch Between Tasks, although usually I make sure to set that to an absurdly high value and on this host I had forgotten. YoYo has at least one app (ECM) that does not checkpoint and I'm no longer running it, since it runs ten to twelve hours and no checkpoint for such an app is ridiculous.

Years ago, after much exasperation with BOINC's scheduling, I settled on "Low cache, few projects". This generally works well for me, other than occasionally quirky behavior like I described. I don't understand why BOINC would assume it would take 60 days to clear with low cache settings. That's not intuitive and just seems bizarre. None of these projects (*edit: or at least these particular tasks) have deadlines of 60 days. Brada has the longest deadline of what's currently in the queue, seven days, which might be why BOINC is delaying those tasks, but it should realize it doesn't have 60 days to process tasks with a deadline of seven.

In this case the work did clear and didn't cause a "real" problem. One of the more annoying problems I had with this sort of scenario years ago was BOINC stopping GPU work to free up cores to run high-priority CPU work. I solved that with multiple clients. The point is that BOINC does not honor FIFO as advertised, or at least as it would be expected to. If there happened to be a "spanner in the works", that could lead work not getting done in time, entirely preventable by honoring FIFO.

Now I have ten Brada tasks, received the 11th and due on the 18th. I suppose this process will repeat in a few days.
18) Message boards : Questions and problems : Why doesn't Boinc schedule earlier deadlines first? (Message 94914)
Posted 13 Jan 2020 by Nick Name
Post:
What's irksome is when things like the following happen. Right now I'm attached to:

    1) YoYo (share 100)
    2) Latin Squares (share 1)
    3) T.Brada Experiment (share 1)
    4) QuChemPedIA@home (share 1)


I'm also attached to WUProp and GoofyGrid (both with shares of 100) but those don't really affect other projects as they're NCI.

Latin Squares (LS) was previously at 100 and I wasn't crunching YoYo at all. I hit a goal on LS and moved on to YoYo within the last week. Shares were set to one and 100 respectively. Other projects were unchanged.

Right now five T. Brada jobs are running in high priority mode. They were received on the 7th and based on FIFO should have been returned before now, as the deadline is now less than 24 hours. BOINC suspended one of them and started a YoYo job, received on the 12th, which ran for three minutes. BOINC then lost its mind, suspended that job plus another YoYo job (also received on the 12th) that had run for 17 minutes, and started the suspended T. Brada job plus another one.

I have my cache set to 0.5 days and 0.1 additional days, as I've been crunching long enough to know that nothing screws BOINC up like a large cache with more than a couple projects. I started using low settings like this years ago. When I first started with BOINC and had it set to run on a schedule, I often saw this type of behavior where work started too late to complete in time.

I don't expect this to cause a real problem as this machine generally runs 24/7. However, if something unexpected should happen, or I needed to reboot for some reason, that could cause wasted work or in a worst case scenario, failure to return these Brada tasks in time. Tasks that don't checkpoint at all, often enough or have faulty checkpoints could be a major problem in this scenario. Strictly honoring FIFO would make it less likely to be a problem. If I were using an app_config to limit the number of concurrent T. Brada tasks, which I'd actually prefer to do but haven't because of silliness like this, some of these tasks probably wouldn't get done in time.

Failing "common sense" scheduling like the average user would expect, where work really would be consistently processed in the order it's received, I'd like a setting in cc_config to force jobs to run to completion once they start.

19) Message boards : Questions and problems : MacPro 5.1 Fehler "DumpGPURestart" (Message 93618)
Posted 10 Nov 2019 by Nick Name
Post:
Log into your SETI account, then go to Preferences for this Project. You can disable GPU work there.

Make sure you are setting it in the profile your machine is using. For example, if you set disable GPU work in the Default profile but your machine is using Work, you will have the same problem.
20) Message boards : Questions and problems : Seti@home not transfering w/VPN (Message 93617)
Posted 10 Nov 2019 by Nick Name
Post:
There's nothing about VPNs in general that keeps BOINC from transferring data. Have you tried a different vpn server? It's possible the one you're using is on a blacklist. If you can't find one that works then check to see if there's a proxy setting you need to set up for BOINC.


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