Posts by Lucas Dobre

1) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113170)
Posted 10 days ago by Lucas Dobre
Post:
That makes sense. So over there they can't form a non-majority government on their own? I was under the impression it could happen in the UK, but they'd have a hard time passing anything the others didn't agree with. Should still work - any legislation others want too will pass. It wouldn't grind the country to a halt, you just wouldn't get radical changes made.
2) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113167)
Posted 11 days ago by Lucas Dobre
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Wow, sounds like the rules for winning a gameshow. I'd make it really simple, count the number of votes in the country, the party with the most votes gets in power. Doesn't have to be a majority, just more than any other.
3) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113165)
Posted 11 days ago by Lucas Dobre
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Sounds a bit weird. I thought proportional was just in deciding how many seats you got, for example in seats A B and C, party X gets only 5000 voters in each. In the UK first past the post system, party X would have no seats. In proportional, that would total 15000 votes, which would count as 1 seat.
4) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113163)
Posted 11 days ago by Lucas Dobre
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I don't see the problem, they're the biggest, they get in. They don't need the others to help them. A hung parliament works just fine, he would only get through whatever some parts of other parties agreed with. (Assuming their parliament is similar the the UK). We certainly need parties like this or we're going to get overrun.
5) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113098)
Posted 22 days ago by Lucas Dobre
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I see no way to distinguish between either side of the conflict, and resent any of our taxes helping either side. I refuse to vote for any government who wastes our money on problems nothing to do with us. God botherers do not interest me.
6) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113090)
Posted 22 days ago by Lucas Dobre
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Let me get this straight, there were anti-Jew mobs, the police were letting them get on with it, Suella disagreed with the police, you disagree with her, so therefore you're anti-Jewish? Or just less anti the other nutty religion?
7) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113088)
Posted 22 days ago by Lucas Dobre
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I can only refer you to the words frequently attributed to Einstein, "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Sometimes I wonder how we're still alive and the dominant race, then I look at how stupid dogs are.

It helps to get blind drunk, then you can stoop to the level of the rest of the population.
8) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113082)
Posted 23 days ago by Lucas Dobre
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Cruella has her goals set on the Tory Party leadership position which if Starmer doesn't do anything monumentally stupid which results in him losing the next election, she may well get.
Do you seriously think anyone is going to vote Tory again? they've done so much wrong in the last term.
9) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 113080)
Posted 23 days ago by Lucas Dobre
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All religious groups are nuts. Let them fight it out themselves.
10) Message boards : The Lounge : Let's talk politics (Message 112887)
Posted 11 Oct 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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Europe should have no powers in the rest of the world. AFAIK Musk is in the USA - I don't think they can imprison an American....
11) Message boards : Android : Accessing Boinc folder (Message 112369)
Posted 26 Jul 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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I've managed to access these files before, but I may be remembering an older phone which I did root. I don't mind rooting a Boinc only device, but this is my main phone, and I don't want to make a mess and lose anything I'd have to tediously set back up. I also found rooting causes viruses. I never found a respectable rooting program. Apparently Kingo Root was a very bad choice.

I shall reset all projects not currently running.
12) Message boards : Android : Accessing Boinc folder (Message 112354)
Posted 25 Jul 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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My phone's disk is getting low on space. The largest apps are Boinc and Google Maps, but both refuse (presumably they aren't compatible with doing so) to be moved onto the SD card. I know Boinc probably has some large files from projects I'm not running at the moment, so I tried to get into the data directory to delete them. But where is it? Looking at the Boinc log via Boinctasks, I see it claims to store data in the folder "/data/user/0/edu.berkeley.boinc/client". Android 11 is being difficult and this path looks different everywhere I look, and I cannot get to the files in it. I tried:

1) USB cable to Windows 11 PC. I thought this showed the whole disk without restrictions. But I see (with the phone set to "USB for file transfer"):
Card, Phone (those are the two drives, card is the SD card, not applicable here). I remember naming these myself some time ago.
In "phone" I have no data folder, but I can go into "Android", which then contains "data". Inside "data", there is no "user", but I do find "edu.berkeley.boinc". This however only contains "files" which is empty. So to summarise I looked for "/data/user/0/edu.berkeley.boinc/client" and found only "Android/data/edu.berkeley.boinc/files".

2) The app "Total Commander" which I read elsewhere shows all files without having to root the phone. On this, I see two "drives" listed at the top with a symbol which looks like an SD card. One is called DICAM-400, which I know to be the SD card, that label was made by the camera I took it from. The other is however called "Internal shared storage". So I think it's not getting to see everything. There's also further down the list a folder icon called "file system root" which I thought would be the real root of the drive. I find: "Internal shared storage/Android/data" but find nothing in there except file commander. I also find "file system root/data/data" but nothing in there except file commander.

Can someone please untangle this mess and stop me going insane? I just want to see what's on the disk and delete some unnecessary things as it's very full.
13) Message boards : Questions and problems : High priority mode? (Message 111795)
Posted 14 May 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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Many projects (I think Primegrid and Einstein are two guilty parties) say updating the server is a huge deal, since they've tweaked to suit themselves and those tweaks would be obliterated and they'd have a lot of work to do to reinstate them. Boinc was too late putting in a lot of things, and projects have had to make their own versions. Now we have branches and more mess.
14) Message boards : Questions and problems : High priority mode? (Message 111726)
Posted 3 May 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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It would be better to do stuff you know you can get done in time first.
Doing that each time, BOINC will never do work for the other projects, when you always have a project with earlier deadlines than others.
I'm only talking about during panic mode. If there's too much to do, do the earliest things first.

Just leave things well alone and you'll notice that the next time BOINC asks for work from Primegrid, is going to be quite a distance time, so as to give the other project(s) time to play catch up.
Except since WCG has sporadic work, as soon as WCG says no, Primegrid gets another "50" day task.

And besides, BOINC projects use redundancy. Work is not just sent out to you, but to another computer as well. When one doesn't return the work in time, it's sent out to a 3rd computer. Until a canonical result comes back.
They would prefer not to have to wait. And a lot of projects don't even send it twice, that's only when checking is needed, a lot of apps self check. Some projects working on biology need a set of results back to create the next batch of work, they can't have stuff hanging around for a few deadline's worth.

You asked earlier as to why BOINC only has one scheduler for all project's applications. First off, the scheduler comes from the time that computers had just a CPU and most projects had 1 application. Only later have new hardware options been added, like GPUs and multiple applications per project. Seeing how the development of BOINC was then and still is done by volunteers and rewriting the scheduler from scratch to include all the new things people want is quite a job, it's been put on the back burner. Maybe one day.
It's a very important change, and one I was told has already been done, but for some reason requires the server end to also be updated?! And GPUs aren't that recent.
15) Message boards : Questions and problems : High priority mode? (Message 111725)
Posted 3 May 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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You said earlier "the WCG tasks will become the ones most likely to miss their deadline"
“Most likely” is perhaps inaccurate. At every scheduling point, BOINC predicts whether each task will miss its deadline. There is no relative grading of probability; it’s 0 or 100%. Right now, your PrimeGrid tasks get priority because under all conceivable scheduling choices, they will miss their deadline. In that situation, the client’s policy is to give them the chance to run – it allows for the remaining-time and achieved-performance estimates to be wrong (and perhaps to improve over time), and it is not permitted to abort the tasks simply because it believes it has no chance of finishing them. The WCG tasks do not get priority yet, because there is still plenty of time before the deadline to do the remaining work; the client does not need to favour them over the PrimeGrid tasks now, because it can reschedule later.
So, at each scheduling point, only Primegrid is to "miss deadline" until such time as WCG will also "miss deadline". then they're both 100%. Best case scenario, WCG is a little bit late. It doesn't have to be.

WCG with 15 minutes to go on a 2 minute deadline
It should never get that close to the wire. With a work buffer of 1 day, the scheduler applies 1 day of padding to task deadlines (because it could run for that long before next contacting a server). So 1 day before the WCG tasks are due, the scheduler will predict that all tasks will miss their deadline, at which point they get prioritised in deadline order (the intuitive interpretation of “earliest deadline first”).
Ah, a further complication. So when I tell it to set a buffer, I'm unknowingly adjusting the deadlines. The plot thickens.

I've seen it fail many times.
If you can get a concrete example of that, please capture the client state, feed it in to the Client Emulator, and raise a bug.
Again? I'm tired of raising bugs. Bugs ought to be removed before the software goes to the customer. Did Microsoft write Boinc?

I'm sure WCG would appreciate their tasks getting done sooner
If a project wants its tasks returned sooner, it needs to set earlier deadlines. BOINC is not a race; it does not care whether tasks finish 1 second or 1 week before their deadline.
It's a game for projects to pick numbers which they think will cause Boinc to suit their purpose. Primegrid for example runs a system of secretly (without the client knowing) extending the deadlines if the task shows progress.
16) Message boards : Questions and problems : High priority mode? (Message 111722)
Posted 3 May 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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until some point where WCG is also behind
With a 1-⁠day work buffer, that shouldn’t happen. The client will realise WCG needs prioritising before it gets behind, not once it gets behind – so (assuming the remaining-time estimates aren’t wildly wrong) the tasks will finish by their deadline.
You said earlier "the WCG tasks will become the ones most likely to miss their deadline" - but as the WCG deadline approaches, we now have Primegrid with 47 days to go on an 18 day deadline, and WCG with 15 minutes to go on a 2 minute deadline. So Primegrid is still the furthest behind and will continue to run.

And I've seen it fail many times. Constantly finding tasks with a negative deadline.

Anyway I'm sure WCG would appreciate their tasks getting done sooner. And since 15 minutes is a lot less than 50 days, do the shortest first? We had this sorted in the 80s in the NHS computer system back in the days of mainframes.
17) Message boards : Questions and problems : High priority mode? (Message 111720)
Posted 3 May 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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Especially when you then don't do things you could have

But it will do them. (Or at least it should…) Under the existing policy, and all else remaining equal: at some point during the next 3 days, the WCG tasks will become the ones most likely to miss their deadline (even with the others still in progress), and they will be given priority such that they complete in time.
Let's say the Primegrid one really is going to take 50 days. It will be the most behind until some point where WCG is also behind. So the WCG tasks are now sent back late too. It would be better to do stuff you know you can get done in time first. Think of each task as a customer. Why make them all angry instead of just one?
18) Message boards : Questions and problems : High priority mode? (Message 111717)
Posted 3 May 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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In the world of the BOINC client scheduler, “earliest deadline” doesn’t mean “the deadline occurring first in the calendar”; it means “the task most likely to miss its deadline”.

In your case, then (as Richard has already explained), “earliest deadline first” policy (which BoincTasks labels “high priority”) means the “50-⁠day” tasks get to run, because they are projected to miss their deadline. Everything else is lower priority.

If you speak C++, you can see the prioritisation algorithm here.
I see, thanks. So similar to a workman doing the job for the customer who is jumping up and down the most.

I guess it's just the why then, because doing something you're going to take over twice as long to complete instead of giving it to someone else is a bit daft. Especially when you then don't do things you could have completed in a timely fashion. It would be like a mechanic working on a 5 day fix for someone who needs it tomorrow, and neglecting 6 other customers he could change a tyre for in 10 minutes.

Even better would be to fix the problem Richard pointed out in red. The client not keeping a note of different apps on different CPU/GPU types going at different speeds. I've been told this is to do with outdated server software, but I don't see why. The client knows how long those tasks take on that processor. Other apps on other processors should not affect it.
19) Message boards : Questions and problems : High priority mode? (Message 111715)
Posted 3 May 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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Someone above my pay grade will have to explain "why?": I just try to explain the "what?"
The "what" would be interesting. I want to know what choices it makes. I always thought it was earliest deadline first, but it seems there's something else going on. Earliest deadline first would have done the WCG tasks first, which would have been preferable, since they could get done really quick, needed finishing first, and were the highest weighted project.
20) Message boards : Questions and problems : High priority mode? (Message 111713)
Posted 3 May 2023 by Lucas Dobre
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So now we have:
Extreme 22 hours to go on 17 days deadline
Extreme "50" days to go on 21 days deadline (* will miss deadline)
Four of WCG 15 minutes to go each on 3 days deadline
* is the problem.
It shouldn't be. Imagine a case where there really is a task which is late, maybe I turned the computer off for a few days. I see no point in running them in the order it does. The best it can do is get as many things done by the deadlines as it can. The obvious order in this case is WCG, then the extreme already started, then the new extreme (which since it's hardly started isn't much of a big deal if it's cancelled).

It's the only one of the tasks you mention that - on the basis of the information that BOINC has been given by PrimeGrid - is at risk of missing its deadline. The most important policy directive that BOINC has in this situation is "avoid missing deadlines, at all costs".
I would still like to know why it chooses the order it does, I'm sure I'd read "earliest deadline first" in any such scenario, which would make sense, but it isn't doing that.

So the 50 day estimate task * gets first stab at the machine's resources, and only other tasks which can fit around it will be run.
That would be daft, as it's the least likely to be any use when it's completed. It didn't do that anyway, it took the other extreme which was almost finished.

Before a task has started running, BOINC is only given two pieces of information about it: the number of floating point operations that will be needed to complete the task (estimated by the project staff in advance), and the speed of the device it will be running on (estimated by BOINC from the observed speed of previous tasks run by the same application on the same device). Nothing else.
That can't be right. If I only run those tasks from Primegrid and nothing else, it gradually learns how long they take. But if I run a CPU task from them, it gets all messed up. Seems the client isn't able to record two different speeds, the CPU and the GPU. There should be a seperate speed recorded for every app on every type of device it has.


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