Here in The Netherlands the insurance companies also want you to use the cheapest possible medicines, even when in the past you've shown to be having allergic reactions or undisclosed side-effects to these that you do not have against the original meds.

The companies say they do this to decrease the cost of care, which is pure BS. For three years in a row now the insurance companies have managed to get over a billion euros profit, but our cost of care is too high? Ha ha ha ha.

Anyway, sometimes I have a return of my bronchitis, and the insurance company wants me to use a generic version of my penicillin replacement med, as I am allergic to penicillin. The generic version has "all the same ingredients as the original one" they say at the pharmacy, but they don't really, do they? Else you'd give me the original one and not a generic one. As there are differences in colouring, added substances and so fort. Perhaps that the actual medicine is the same, but everything around it isn't.

And so I show a really bad allergic reaction on the generic versions (there are three), which I don't have with the normal one. But each time I go to the pharmacy, I have to fight them again because they want to give me the generic one. And when you're already ill, it's no fun to have to fight someone deciding over you and your health that you should try these first before you're allowed to do the original one.

The worst part is that for me it's perhaps doable to weather a severe allergic reaction with just pain in my lungs, but they do this for people with heart medication as well, knowing fully well that the most probable allergic reaction is death...

Here in The Netherlands it's no longer about health, it's all about the money. We even pay an 'own risk' which is now €385.- per person. You first have to fill up this own risk before you're getting your medical costs reimbursed. That is aside from the hefty monthly subscription you have with your insurance company, and everyone over 18 years of age is required to get this insurance.

Failing to do so will get you a fine of €1,400.- on top of having to pay off the year's subscription you missed out on. See? All about the money.

---

...Here in The Netherlands it's no longer about health, it's all about the money. We even pay an 'own risk' which is now €385.- per person. You first have to fill up this own risk before you're getting your medical costs reimbursed. That is aside from the hefty monthly subscription you have with your insurance company, and everyone over 18 years of age is required to get this insurance.

Failing to do so will get you a fine of €1,400.- on top of having to pay off the year's subscription you missed out on. See? All about the money.

This sure sounds like Obamacare here in the US, now!!! :-O

---

Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos
Pluto is still a planet

This sure sounds like Obamacare here in the US, now!!! :-O

That's because Obamacare is based upon the Dutch care system. Less care for loads more money.
https://www.umhs-sk.org/blog/health-care-around-the-world-why-dutch-system-similar-to-obamacare-is-model-for-usa/Caribbean-Medical-Schools

---

About generics:

I seriously doubt the US FDA is in front of everyone else in their rules and regulations, but ...

I've got two vials here for the same generic, one says made by Zydus pharmaceuticals, one says made by Solco Healthcare. Each label also includes a lot number and expiration date.

Ask yourself why?

It is because they are different!

I know this. One of them smells "fishy" and the other doesn't. That isn't a difference in the actual active ingredient. That is a difference in the binders, the glue that makes it stay in the shape of a pill. BTW the binder can influence the rate at which the drug is absorbed.

Any plant, even the name brand one, can make a bad batch at any time. Hopefully Q/C catches it before it goes out the door. At times they don't and even at times they knowingly ship crap. On occasion they get caught and closed. But knowing the name of the company does not mean you know where the stuff was made. Just like electronics from China there exists a bunch of multipurpose chemical manufacturers who get subcontract work. Unfortunately honest inspectors aren't in every plant.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Globalization!

---

...

Anyway, sometimes I have a return of my bronchitis, and the insurance company wants me to use a generic version of my penicillin replacement med, as I am allergic to penicillin. The generic version has "all the same ingredients as the original one" they say at the pharmacy, but they don't really, do they? Else you'd give me the original one and not a generic one. As there are differences in colouring, added substances and so fort. Perhaps that the actual medicine is the same, but everything around it isn't.

And so I show a really bad allergic reaction on the generic versions (there are three), which I don't have with the normal one. But each time I go to the pharmacy, I have to fight them again because they want to give me the generic one. And when you're already ill, it's no fun to have to fight someone deciding over you and your health that you should try these first before you're allowed to do the original one. ...

That's very true. My oldest son would just vomit up the generic suspension (which defeats the point of trying to give it to him) so I did have to ask the doctor to prescribe the brand name. That was just a matter of the flavour though. The active ingredient was still paracetamol. The doctor didn't make a big deal of it though.

First Post during the Outrage!!! :-)

---

Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos
Pluto is still a planet

Today's outrage is getting a late start, does that bode a change?
The servers just went down, the outrage has started.

Can we change the subject, please?

How was everyone's Valentine's Day? Or, if you had it, your President's Day?

Myself, I stayed in the house for the whole three day weekend. Saturday was cold, Sunday was snowing, Monday I thought about going out, but lost my motivation. I did mop part of the floor, though. Now I need to wax the hardwood portion.

---

signature

Was it President's Day this week? Great; garbage pickup delayed.

AT&T upgraded our internet from 3 Mbps to 24 Mbps download speeds, but I wish they would do the upload speed, too. It's really backwards for my taste. We don't really stream stuff; it just would be nice to have email attachments and things I upload to Photobucket, etc. go faster.

---

The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Was it President's Day this week? Great; garbage pickup delayed.

I was hoping my garbage pickup would be delayed, but it wasn't.

AT&T upgraded our internet from 3 Mbps to 24 Mbps download speeds, but I wish they would do the upload speed, too. It's really backwards for my taste. We don't really stream stuff; it just would be nice to have email attachments and things I upload to Photobucket, etc. go faster.

I understand that, but I don't upload massive amounts either.

---

signature

Was it President's Day this week? Great; garbage pickup delayed.

AT&T upgraded our internet from 3 Mbps to 24 Mbps download speeds, but I wish they would do the upload speed, too. It's really backwards for my taste. We don't really stream stuff; it just would be nice to have email attachments and things I upload to Photobucket, etc. go faster.

Yeah, I never particularly understood or agreed with the way-off-balance transfer rates. I know there's not really a need for 99.9% of people to have even 25% of the upload speed as their download speed, but the balance seems to be very lop-sided.

For a while, years back, Comcast was doing 1.5m/128k. After a few years, they moved it up to 3m/256k. Then 6/384. It lingered there for a while, and then became 8/384, then 12/512, 16/1, and then we got into DOCSIS 3.0.

These days, you get 105/10, or if you pay an absurd amount.. 150/25. Then in Florida, you can get 2gbit down, and I think I heard it is only 35 or 40mbit up, and that runs you about $375/mo. We already discussed 2gbit in this thread though.



But then you look at the options in Europe, and there's a lot of options for fiber to the home (FTTH) that are 1gbit down and up, and are generally under €100/mo (this is all a very broad generalization, so it isn't 100% accurate). I saw somebody on Twitter announcing their upgraded connection in France a few months ago and posted this:

Just now, I did some research, and that connection is part of a bundled package that costs just €46/mo for a minimum of 500/200mbit.

A friend of mine lived in Japan for four years, and he had 100mbit (up and down) DSL in his apartment and it ran him ¥7500/mo.

So why can't we seem to close that disparity here in the States? Methinks it has a lot to do with politics, and this isn't the thread to discuss the reasons farther.

Winning after work..

We live in a home built in the 1950's, with copper, of course, and the junction box where fiber begins is about 2000 feet away. During the upgrade yesterday, the technician ran up-to-date Ethernet in the basement to help increase the speed, but the limit is probably around 64 Mbps under current circumstances.

I just think they should offer a higher upload rate if you want it in lieu of the download speed.

My next tech visit will be a satellite tv installer on Friday who may want to replace some old coax.

---

The mind is a weird and mysterious place

We live in a home built in the 1950's, with copper, of course, and the junction box where fiber begins is about 2000 feet away. During the upgrade yesterday, the technician ran up-to-date Ethernet in the basement to help increase the speed, but the limit is probably around 64 Mbps under current circumstances.

You don't require fiber into the house to be able to use high speed internet, copper can do that as well. 10Gbit is capable of using copper, albeit true, it needs new (high grade) copper.

However, just for comparison:
1. I live in a 1960s flat, with coax laid down in the 1980s. My internet connection goes through that coax, and is at presently 200Mbit/20Mbit (D/U).
2. My mom lives in a 1960s house, new fiber was laid down in 1998, but all connections into the houses are still the old 1960s copper wires. She has fiber internet, but doesn't reach speeds above 60Mbit. I don't even know her download speed, I don't think her ISP says what it is as all they throw at you is how fiber is superior.

Their fiber is so superior that their salespeople don't even come to my door anymore to try to lure me over to their speed, as they know they are not able to reach 200Mbit with their present setup. My ISP is, and in the near future I expect speeds to go up again.

Ah, but do I read the 25MB/sec download speed? Yes, I do. Not always, but at times and given that the file is big enough, and there are enough computers pushing, I do. I do not at Steam anymore, as they seem to be limited to 150Mbit in their upload. Updating GTA V through Rockstar's connection though does give me 24.8MB/sec.

---

You don't require fiber into the house to be able to use high speed internet, copper can do that as well. 10Gbit is capable of using copper, albeit true, it needs new (high grade) copper.

Which is cheaper to string on the poles and to the house? Higher grade copper or fiber?

---

The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Copper, because you don't string fiber on poles. It needs to be laid underground and as level as possible, so the light going through the strands follows the straightest path from A to B.

---

Copper, because you don't string fiber on poles. It needs to be laid underground and as level as possible, so the light going through the strands follows the straightest path from A to B.

With all due respect, that's utter nonsense.

Fiber optic cable is installed aerially just as often as buried, perhaps more, as the costs for burial are often huge.
Want to know how it's done? Click here for one vendor's take on the process.
Fiber can be run anywhere any other type of cable can be run. Like any other cable, such things as minimum bend radius, maximum jacket stress level and required carrier or support must be observed.
I did an entire 5-building campus in Virginia using aerial fiber back in the mid-90s.
Sheesh.

---

Google is talking about their own brand of internet deployment into the city here, and their plan about rearranging existing copper lines on the poles to fit them in is irking the current two providers. If I understand Google Fiber correctly, they would be doing fiber everywhere in the city, not just underground, but also stringing pole to pole, and to the house.

---

The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Google is talking about their own brand of internet deployment into the city here, and their plan about rearranging existing copper lines on the poles to fit them in is irking the current two providers. If I understand Google Fiber correctly, they would be doing fiber everywhere in the city, not just underground, but also stringing pole to pole, and to the house.

Pros and Cons to both approaches. Taking fiber all the way to the "curb" has some downside, in that you end up having to place powered equipment at the premise, to convert to wired Ethernet. You have to do similar with DSL or Cable modems, as well, but running cable or twisted pair is a little less touchy than fiber.
One way or another, most systems will be a hybrid of at least two of the three. Case in point, I'm on cable, but when you get out to the highway there's a box, and from there back it's aerial fiber. For DSL, if the distance from the CO is over 12k feet or so, they'll hang a DSLAM on a pole and feed it back fiber (or copper) from there. In most cases, that "last mile" will be copper. Most folks don't want their back yard dug up for fiber when there's already cable and twisted pair sitting there that can be used.
It will be interesting to see how Google does with this.
Not to forget the various wireless approaches, also.

---

Google is talking about their own brand of internet deployment into the city here, and their plan about rearranging existing copper lines on the poles to fit them in is irking the current two providers. If I understand Google Fiber correctly, they would be doing fiber everywhere in the city, not just underground, but also stringing pole to pole, and to the house.

The goal with Google Fiber is to bring fiber to every home and business in the whole city, and then the ISPs that are there have multiple options: A) keep using their existing infrastructure and become competitive with their pricing and options, or B) lease usage on Google's system and provide competitive pricing since they no longer have to pay for upkeep on the infrastructure.

The ultimate goal is to get rid of the monopolies where you only get one ISP in certain parts of town. Google comes in, puts fiber in, and then you can have ten ISPs battling each other to try to get customers, and they battle by dropping prices and offering more features.

In the end, everyone wins. The customer gets good service at a low price, the ISP doesn't have an infrastructure to do upkeep on, and Google rakes in enough money to do the upkeep and still make a profit.