[Idea] Cross-Project WU exchange - Idle project redirects/sends other project's WUs!?

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-horn-

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Message 32022 - Posted: 7 Apr 2010, 17:30:50 UTC

hi,

perhaps that's a wanted feature for you boinc coders and I want at least share my idea.

Not all users uses BAM! and other services managing their 1000+1 attched projects. And these users sometimes have only some few projects attched to their clients, so there is no need for boinc.

In case that their projects don't send WUs thei are idle and not participating. So I think about some kind of redirection, that a project can decide, what else's WU they can send or just send a command to the idle user to grab some other projects WUs during the time the primary project won't send any WUs.
The primary project decides what befriended project this can be.
Just think about it like a temporary power supply. Until main power is offline one ore more auxiliary supplies are used until main power is back online.

perhaps some projects are competitors, but over all it's about sharing idle pc time and perhaps it can be optimized by such a feature.

So what do you think?


Andreas
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Les Bayliss
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Message 32024 - Posted: 7 Apr 2010, 17:45:14 UTC - in response to Message 32022.  

That's what the Resource share setting is for.
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Jazzop

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Message 32030 - Posted: 8 Apr 2010, 3:54:26 UTC - in response to Message 32022.  

The resource share setting doesn't allow a user to prioritize favorite projects adequately (without babysitting the machine and manually suspending other projects when your favorite one releases WUs).

Take SIMAP, for example. If I want to maximize my CPU time and crunch the maximum number of SIMAP WUs, my only recourse is to suspend everything else for the few days a month that SIMAP releases WUs. If I didn't care about maximizing CPU time, of course I could choose to attach only to SIMAP and remain idle 25 days out of the month.

The OP's suggestion could potentially eliminate this problem by allowing SIMAP to forward other projects' WUs to me whenever they are out of their own WUs. When they come back online with new SIMAP WUs, the forwarding ceases. It would also be nice if, when SIMAP puts out more WUs, they would send an abort or suspend signal so that my machine would not crunch the forwarded WUs as long as there was anything from SIMAP available.
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Profile Jord
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Message 32037 - Posted: 8 Apr 2010, 10:20:26 UTC - in response to Message 32030.  
Last modified: 8 Apr 2010, 10:21:04 UTC

The resource share setting doesn't allow a user to prioritize favorite projects adequately

It does now if projects update their server software. Since about two months a resource share of zero is allowed, the tell BOINC that you want that project to be used as backup project only. It won't get any work from that project, unless your main project is out of work.

Needs an updated BOINC client (6.10.37 or above), while the project needs [trac]changeset:20315[/trac]

Seti has it enabled.
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-horn-

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Message 32527 - Posted: 2 May 2010, 13:42:44 UTC

Hi,

if there is something like this already implemented so why isn't no project I'm attached to using it?
Like down projects like orbit@home or lhc@home?
My client is asking for WUs and doesnt get any and I don't want to deattach because I could miss their restart.

Andreas
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SekeRob

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Message 32528 - Posted: 2 May 2010, 14:01:47 UTC - in response to Message 32527.  
Last modified: 2 May 2010, 14:22:24 UTC

All projects are using project weight or more commonly the resource share. The default value in the device venues is 100, so if you're attached to 2 projects and both have a value of 100, each get in the long run 50% of the computing time, provided work is available. If you want to make sure that your 2 fav projects get all time yet want to anticipate that both of them have no work, you can as outlined above by Ageless set a 3rd as backup project with a share of zero... only fetch tasks from this projects when all others have none.

In the example of Orbit and LHC having no work, set e.g. WorldCommunityGrid as your backup project with zero weight. They have work for years to come. Your client will continue to check with Orbit and LHC and as soon as something is available your client will flip over.

edit: One for Jord... What's the fetch logic if multiple back-up projects are attached with zero share?
Coelum Non Animum Mutant, Qui Trans Mare Currunt
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-horn-

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Message 32792 - Posted: 14 May 2010, 11:03:05 UTC

Hi,

I think it's not clear what I mean.
For sure I could attach my profile to several projects (that's what I have :)), but in case that you have just one project, that you like and support, and this will run out of WUs, then your client has nothing to do. And perhaps you haven't recogized it for some time or doesn't want to attachto another project, the one attched project should have an option to send other projects WU (and their app of course) to you during their out-of-work time.

I will give an example:
The YOYO project and RNA World share some admins, so they could deicde then "in case of out-of-work YOYO will send RNA World WU to their attached clients, so that they have anything to do.
Or the one admin is a friend of another projects admin and they do a buddy deal to do a "call forwarding".
In these cases the user doesn't have to do anything and change their share ratios or whatever.

Andreas
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Profile Jord
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Message 32794 - Posted: 14 May 2010, 13:24:24 UTC - in response to Message 32792.  
Last modified: 14 May 2010, 13:26:19 UTC

Hmm, there's complaints already as it is from people who want to have full control over their own computer, with BOINC on it. Imagine what would happen when they attach to one project, but would get work from another that they didn't choose (or ever heard of). Not a good idea.

I wouldn't even want that to happen to my systems, as I choose which projects I want to do based upon my mood of the day/hardware limitations. I don't want it to run tasks that use in excess of 1GB of RAM, which is possible if some unknown to me project gets to send its work to me, instead of the projects I chose to do.

It'll go against the Usage Rules and Policies:

"When you run BOINC on your computer, it will use part of the computer's CPU power, disk space, and network bandwidth. You can control how much of your resources are used by BOINC, and when it uses them."

It'll go against the Rules the projects have laid upon themselves, e.g. taken from Yoyo@Home:
"Other projects use the same platform, BOINC, as yoyo@home. You may want to consider participating in one or more of these projects. By doing so, your computer will do useful work even when yoyo@home has no work available for it."

You'll find this at RNA World as well. Now why would projects say that and do it differently anyway? And where would that leave you with the choice of:

"You can control how much of your resources are used by RNA World (beta), and when it uses them." and "You can control how much of your resources are used by yoyo@home, and when it uses them." ??

BOINC gives you the choice, always. It doesn't dictate what your computer must do. Else there would be no use for individual projects. Just get one to attach to and we'll send you whatever is in store!
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Message boards : Questions and problems : [Idea] Cross-Project WU exchange - Idle project redirects/sends other project's WUs!?

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