Official 64 bit clients

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clownius

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Message 8281 - Posted: 17 Feb 2007, 13:24:17 UTC

Ok i know this has been asked for a couple of times now but its starting to become an issue as more and more projects are supporting 64bit.
I personally run 4 machines and have 2 going into retirement and 3 on the way. At least 2 of these machines can and will run 64bit Linux (but i think windoze users could benefit from this too) and i would really like it if i could run an official 64bit client rather than someone else's compile/optimisation that may not like my system (or some projects).
There are projects who have found 64bit clients run faster and many others support 64bit clients with a 32bit app that automatically gets sent out for them so i would like to move onto a 64bit client and i know many other users would too.
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Aaron Finney

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Message 8956 - Posted: 21 Mar 2007, 13:32:58 UTC - in response to Message 8281.  
Last modified: 21 Mar 2007, 13:35:09 UTC

Ok i know this has been asked for a couple of times now but its starting to become an issue as more and more projects are supporting 64bit.
I personally run 4 machines and have 2 going into retirement and 3 on the way. At least 2 of these machines can and will run 64bit Linux (but i think windoze users could benefit from this too) and i would really like it if i could run an official 64bit client rather than someone else's compile/optimisation that may not like my system (or some projects).
There are projects who have found 64bit clients run faster and many others support 64bit clients with a 32bit app that automatically gets sent out for them so i would like to move onto a 64bit client and i know many other users would too.


I'd like to be on a 64-bit Client.

I think one should be available. I'm building a system with 8 cores, that means I'll be using more than 4gb of ram on just BOINC. The system will have 8GB of ram.

I *need* a 64-bit OS to use that much ram.. It seems rational that I would like to see a 64-bit client, since it's the reason I need a 64-bit OS.
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River~~
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Message 8967 - Posted: 21 Mar 2007, 18:18:51 UTC - in response to Message 8956.  

I *need* a 64-bit OS to use that much ram.. It seems rational that I would like to see a 64-bit client, since it's the reason I need a 64-bit OS.


ummmm


You need a 64bit OS to use that much RAM, true

You need a 64bit OS to use >4Gb from one task, true

You need a 64bit OS to run several tasks and take advantage of that much RAM, true

*but* the task only needs to be 64 bit if the task itself wants >4Gb. Assuming even distribution of memory across tasks, the point where you need a 64bit task is when memory > ncpu * 4Gb.

Even then, you would not need a 64bit client. A 32 bit client, using <4Gb itself, can run on a 64bit OS and can tell the OS to start/stop a 64bit app.

In that situation, where the project had an app the genuinely used >4Gb you could either run from a 64bit client, or even then you could run from a 32-bit client but you would have to make sure the client asked for 64-bit apps.

Until we get apps > 4Gb, there is only a small gain to be made by going to 64bots in the app -- and some projects would see a performance loss due to the time and cache space taken by loading the longer words.

Hope that reassures.
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Aaron Finney

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Message 9026 - Posted: 23 Mar 2007, 17:37:02 UTC - in response to Message 8967.  
Last modified: 23 Mar 2007, 17:38:39 UTC


Even then, you would not need a 64bit client. A 32 bit client, using <4Gb itself, can run on a 64bit OS and can tell the OS to start/stop a 64bit app.


Don't care.

Didn't say need, said like to see. Meaning - I just want it.
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River~~
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Message 9029 - Posted: 23 Mar 2007, 18:54:24 UTC - in response to Message 9026.  


Even then, you would not need a 64bit client. A 32 bit client, using <4Gb itself, can run on a 64bit OS and can tell the OS to start/stop a 64bit app.


Don't care.

Didn't say need, said like to see. Meaning - I just want it.


Actually, you said *need* (your stars, not mine) as well as like.

You want it, that's fine, I've no problem with folks saying what they want/like, I do it myself alot; but you don't need it, not even need it in order to use all your RAM.

R~~
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Aaron Finney

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Message 9048 - Posted: 23 Mar 2007, 23:44:59 UTC - in response to Message 9029.  
Last modified: 23 Mar 2007, 23:53:45 UTC


Even then, you would not need a 64bit client. A 32 bit client, using <4Gb itself, can run on a 64bit OS and can tell the OS to start/stop a 64bit app.


Don't care.

Didn't say need, said like to see. Meaning - I just want it.


Actually, you said *need* (your stars, not mine) as well as like.



No I said plain as day that I would 'like to' see it (the 64-bit client). Don't quote me out of context, my words were said with purpose, and you're perverting them.
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Profile Trog Dog
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Message 9050 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 4:08:26 UTC



Given that 32bit can/will run on 64bit - how about BOINC implementing the following support -

a client that reports itself as 64 bit (don't care if it's compiled as a 32bit or 64bit executable)

server side support 64 bit - ie recognition of the x86_64-pc-linux as opposed to the x86_64-unknown platform, inbuilt server side logic so that if a client reports itself as 64bit but the project only has a 32bit executable then it sends the 32bit executable.
CIC1=CC=C(C2=N[C@@H](CC(OC(C)(C)C)=O)C3=NN=C(C)N3C4=C2C(C)=C(C)S4)C=C1
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Nicolas

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Message 9052 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 4:49:07 UTC

There are already plans to make a client that sends multiple platform names, in order of preference (first 64 bit then 32 bit), and server modifications to follow that. Could also be useful for Mac/intel machines, "send mac intel if available, or otherwise mac ppc".
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Aaron Finney

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Message 9058 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 9:16:34 UTC - in response to Message 9052.  

There are already plans to make a client that sends multiple platform names, in order of preference (first 64 bit then 32 bit), and server modifications to follow that. Could also be useful for Mac/intel machines, "send mac intel if available, or otherwise mac ppc".


Really I don't see what would be so difficult about making a 64-bit client.

I mean.. ok.. forgive me if I'm wrong, but don't you just take the same data and just run it through a compiler except with different settings?

Isn't that all automated? I mean.. It's not like it takes DAYS OF FRUSTRATING CODING NIGHTMARES to just sleeve the 32-bit version through the compiler and have it come out 64bit right?

Am I totally wrong here? Because that's what Intel would have me believe..
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MikeMarsUK

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Message 9059 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 11:54:48 UTC


It's a lot more complex than you suggest, but even if the compile was instantaneous there's the testing afterwards. We've been testing multiple variations of CPDN builds for months on the Beta site.

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Studebaker Hawk
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Message 9061 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 14:55:42 UTC - in response to Message 9058.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2007, 15:10:02 UTC

There are already plans to make a client that sends multiple platform names, in order of preference (first 64 bit then 32 bit), and server modifications to follow that. Could also be useful for Mac/intel machines, "send mac intel if available, or otherwise mac ppc".


Really I don't see what would be so difficult about making a 64-bit client.

I mean.. ok.. forgive me if I'm wrong, but don't you just take the same data and just run it through a compiler except with different settings?

Isn't that all automated? I mean.. It's not like it takes DAYS OF FRUSTRATING CODING NIGHTMARES to just sleeve the 32-bit version through the compiler and have it come out 64bit right?

Am I totally wrong here? Because that's what Intel would have me believe..


The world's biggest and most frequent liar, in the private sector, is Bill Gates. Second, behind Gates, is Intel. In public sector (i.e. government) it's a toss up between George Bush, Kinda Sleezy Rice and Dick Cheney but ... whatever.

And you DID say *I need*, in fact you said it twice. Look and re-read your post, message #8956, see where it says:

"I *need* a 64-bit OS to use that much ram.. It seems rational that I would like to see a 64-bit client, since it's the reason I need a 64-bit OS."

The bolding of the word "need" is mine, not yours. I put it in bold to help you read your post because your eyes seem to be failing and your spectacles seem to be broken.
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Studebaker Hawk
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Message 9062 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 15:27:13 UTC - in response to Message 8281.  

Clownius gave us...
... so i would like to move onto a 64bit client and i know many other users would too.


Augustine has donated a 64-bit BOINC core for Linux, Crunch3r has donated one for some other operating called Windows. Most projects have a thread called AMD64 in which Augustine has posted download links for both the Linux version and the Windows version. Perhaps try those and let us know if you find anything wrong with them. I've heard they are both simply marvelous.

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Profile Jord
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Message 9063 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 15:27:47 UTC

Although the moderators here are more lenient than those on other forums, may I ask everyone to tone it down and post more according to the posting rules? So stop the baits.

Aaron never said he needs a 64bit client. He did say he needs the 64bit OS to be able to use more than 4GB of memory. He likes to have a 64bit BOINC client, never said he needs one.
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River~~
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Message 9067 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 16:25:47 UTC - in response to Message 9063.  

...Aaron never said he needs a 64bit client. He did say he needs the 64bit OS to be able to use more than 4GB of memory. He likes to have a 64bit BOINC client, never said he needs one.


My mistake, I must have read his post half a dozen times and misread it each time.

I apologize

if that's allowed on the 'net? ;-)

R~~
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River~~
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Message 9068 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 16:29:27 UTC - in response to Message 9050.  

Given that 32bit can/will run on 64bit - how about BOINC implementing the following support -

a client that reports itself as 64 bit (don't care if it's compiled as a 32bit or 64bit executable)...


or alternatively, add a command line option to the standard client to ask for a specified platform before it asks for the platform that is native to itself. That then allows all kinds of flexibility in future, but with it being a command line option it will only be used by those who are bright enough to figure out how to invoke it, which with any luck might even include those who know what they are doing.

R~~
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Nicolas

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Message 9074 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 19:33:43 UTC - in response to Message 9068.  

Given that 32bit can/will run on 64bit - how about BOINC implementing the following support -

a client that reports itself as 64 bit (don't care if it's compiled as a 32bit or 64bit executable)...


or alternatively, add a command line option to the standard client to ask for a specified platform before it asks for the platform that is native to itself. That then allows all kinds of flexibility in future, but with it being a command line option it will only be used by those who are bright enough to figure out how to invoke it, which with any luck might even include those who know what they are doing.

See this post, and the first item under Server/Back End on BOINC Development projects.
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Profile Trog Dog
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Message 9081 - Posted: 24 Mar 2007, 23:13:03 UTC - in response to Message 9059.  


It's a lot more complex than you suggest, but even if the compile was instantaneous there's the testing afterwards. We've been testing multiple variations of CPDN builds for months on the Beta site.


There's a big difference between moving the BOINC client and your projects app to 64bit. We're referring to the client here, not individual project apps. As far as I'm concerned it's up to each project to decide if native 64bit apps would benefit them or not, but it would be nice if they support the platform by at least sending out the 32bit app.
CIC1=CC=C(C2=N[C@@H](CC(OC(C)(C)C)=O)C3=NN=C(C)N3C4=C2C(C)=C(C)S4)C=C1
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Aaron Finney

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Message 9101 - Posted: 25 Mar 2007, 22:31:41 UTC - in response to Message 9081.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2007, 22:32:29 UTC


It's a lot more complex than you suggest, but even if the compile was instantaneous there's the testing afterwards. We've been testing multiple variations of CPDN builds for months on the Beta site.


There's a big difference between moving the BOINC client and your projects app to 64bit. We're referring to the client here, not individual project apps. As far as I'm concerned it's up to each project to decide if native 64bit apps would benefit them or not, but it would be nice if they support the platform by at least sending out the 32bit app.


I agree, I think that the server side software should have alternative platform settings.

As of right now.. it looks like my major 64-bit rig is just going to work solely for Docking @ Home..
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MikeMarsUK

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Message 9102 - Posted: 26 Mar 2007, 0:34:54 UTC - in response to Message 9081.  


It's a lot more complex than you suggest, but even if the compile was instantaneous there's the testing afterwards. We've been testing multiple variations of CPDN builds for months on the Beta site.


There's a big difference between moving the BOINC client and your projects app to 64bit. We're referring to the client here, not individual project apps. As far as I'm concerned it's up to each project to decide if native 64bit apps would benefit them or not, but it would be nice if they support the platform by at least sending out the 32bit app.


Fair enough then. A way to download 32-bit science apps onto a 64 bit platform is a good idea (provided the 64-bit platform can support the 32-bit of course, I gather most linux distributions do but a few don't).
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Aaron Finney

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Message 9120 - Posted: 26 Mar 2007, 12:58:52 UTC - in response to Message 9102.  

Fair enough then. A way to download 32-bit science apps onto a 64 bit platform is a good idea (provided the 64-bit platform can support the 32-bit of course, I gather most linux distributions do but a few don't).


They should.. the Linux Fanboi's claim to slice, dice, and make beautiful juilienne carrots.... Surely even the most regal 64-bit distro uses 32-bit apps too.
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Message boards : BOINC client : Official 64 bit clients

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