Thread 'BOINC Project Collatz Conjecture is FAKE?'

Message boards : Projects : BOINC Project Collatz Conjecture is FAKE?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

AuthorMessage
TheFanMan64

Send message
Joined: 12 Dec 20
Posts: 6
United States
Message 109802 - Posted: 12 Sep 2022, 1:18:25 UTC

This project has recently been getting a lot of backlash for their legitimacy, and recently they took down their site and there servers are down, this may be proof of this project being fake.
ID: 109802 · Report as offensive
Les Bayliss
Help desk expert

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 05
Posts: 1654
Australia
Message 109803 - Posted: 12 Sep 2022, 3:48:17 UTC - in response to Message 109802.  

Depends on where this "backlash" is coming from.
Can you post a link to the backlash site please.
ID: 109803 · Report as offensive
Dr Who Fan
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 10 May 07
Posts: 1439
United States
Message 109804 - Posted: 12 Sep 2022, 5:33:42 UTC
Last modified: 12 Sep 2022, 5:41:14 UTC

Les, there was some chatter a while back here on the BOINC forum that was shut down by moderator's due to violation of forum rules. It also might of been removed by mods.

I would advise the original poster NOT to post any discussion, links, etc or mods might take same action again.

Collatz is down because the owner is in the process of moving to new home in another state. Owner didn't give time line for site to be back up.
ID: 109804 · Report as offensive
ProfileDave
Help desk expert

Send message
Joined: 28 Jun 10
Posts: 2676
United Kingdom
Message 109805 - Posted: 12 Sep 2022, 6:44:24 UTC - in response to Message 109803.  

Depends on where this "backlash" is coming from.
Can you post a link to the backlash site please.


Hope this does not violate any rules. My memory is that it was alleged the algorithm used by the project didn't do what it said on the tin, making the project a waste of computer time. I didn't look at it for long enough to determine that though I do know someone whose PhD is in a closely related field who would probably be able to tell a lot more quickly than I could. If true, I suspect the project owner disagrees with those who say the algorithm doesn't work rather than it being a deliberate fake. As far as I am aware, no one from the project joined the discussion to try and refute the claims.
ID: 109805 · Report as offensive
Les Bayliss
Help desk expert

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 05
Posts: 1654
Australia
Message 109807 - Posted: 12 Sep 2022, 8:51:10 UTC - in response to Message 109805.  

Ah, right. I remember some one posting that that wasn't how to solve the Conjecture problem.
Not my field, so I ignored the discussion.
ID: 109807 · Report as offensive
BOINC Moderator
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 10 Mar 20
Posts: 68
Message 109809 - Posted: 12 Sep 2022, 10:49:09 UTC - in response to Message 109804.  

Les, there was some chatter a while back here on the BOINC forum that was shut down by moderator's due to violation of forum rules.

Stick to the facts please. That other thread auto-locked due to inactivity.

May I please ask you to stop telling users here what they can and cannot post about? With your threats of moderation, while trying to tell the moderators what to do as well.

We allow that concept of free speech very broadly, as we're supposed to do. I see nothing wrong with the OP's post. All you had to do was post the facts why Collatz is offline.
ID: 109809 · Report as offensive
Ian&Steve C.

Send message
Joined: 24 Dec 19
Posts: 229
United States
Message 109824 - Posted: 13 Sep 2022, 0:59:47 UTC
Last modified: 13 Sep 2022, 1:00:09 UTC

the project isnt "fake". it exists (or did). whether it comes back or not remains to be seen.

but their methodology was shown to be flawed in the referenced old post, and the project admins refused to change anything about it when it was brought to light. they were more than happy to continue on crunching numbers uselessly.

people are free to waste their compute power there if they wish. it's just a points faucet for low powered systems after all.
ID: 109824 · Report as offensive
ProfileTigers Dave

Send message
Joined: 24 Dec 05
Posts: 52
United States
Message 109880 - Posted: 27 Sep 2022, 13:41:23 UTC - in response to Message 109824.  

Hi Ian&Steve C! Could you please provide us with a gist of the argument that the methodology was flawed? Or, could you please provide me with a link to that argument? I have had a number of exchanges over the years on this topic and I remain unconvinced that the methodology was flawed. poppinfresh99 has posted several times his concern that the algorithm employs a sieve and thus the algorithm fails to analyze all possible candidate exceptions to the Collatz Conjecture. For an example of that argument, see this thread: https://boinc.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=14159.

This particular argument from poppinfresh99 is flawed because any even candidate number N can be reduced to N/2 and N/2 was analyzed approximately 18 months ago. Thus, the project does not even request that any even candidate number N be analyzed. Furthermore, I postulate, but cannot confirm (because I have not seen the source code), that once any candidate number N has been reduced to less than N/2, analysis of that number can cease, as the result can be determined using previously-determined results. My hypothesis is supported by the observation that Collatz work units have not been taking longer to analyze as N increases; the algorithm only has to reduce N to less than N/2, regardless of how large N gets.

But, I could be convinced by additional analyses and data.

"Points faucet for low-powered systems"? Don't you think that is a little harsh?

the project isnt "fake". it exists (or did). whether it comes back or not remains to be seen.

but their methodology was shown to be flawed in the referenced old post, and the project admins refused to change anything about it when it was brought to light. they were more than happy to continue on crunching numbers uselessly.

people are free to waste their compute power there if they wish. it's just a points faucet for low powered systems after all.

ID: 109880 · Report as offensive
Ian&Steve C.

Send message
Joined: 24 Dec 19
Posts: 229
United States
Message 109881 - Posted: 27 Sep 2022, 15:10:17 UTC - in response to Message 109880.  

1. I agree with poppinfresh’s point/analysis.

2. I do not believe this conjecture can be disproven. Akin to finding the last digit of Pi or the largest Prime. It will never end. Exercise in futility.

3. No I don’t believe it’s harsh.
ID: 109881 · Report as offensive
Mads Nissen

Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 22
Posts: 1
Denmark
Message 110549 - Posted: 24 Nov 2022, 12:13:09 UTC - in response to Message 109881.  

The project/server is down temporarily due to moving to another residence in another state, that's what I know about it and believe it was mentioned here https://www.boincstats.com/ or in the chat box.
ID: 110549 · Report as offensive
ProfileCthulhu

Send message
Joined: 18 Nov 20
Posts: 14
Message 110857 - Posted: 3 Jan 2023, 23:37:46 UTC

Time to consider removing Collatz Conjecture from the project list... Been like a year since the Sonntag's disappeared!
ID: 110857 · Report as offensive
ProfileTigers Dave

Send message
Joined: 24 Dec 05
Posts: 52
United States
Message 110980 - Posted: 30 Jan 2023, 3:56:18 UTC

If it were up to me, I would give Slicker until the 1-year anniversary (early June 2023) before removing Collatz from the project list.
ID: 110980 · Report as offensive

Message boards : Projects : BOINC Project Collatz Conjecture is FAKE?

Copyright © 2024 University of California.
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.