BOINC & Android TV

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Raistmer

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Message 103607 - Posted: 19 Mar 2021, 19:19:09 UTC
Last modified: 19 Mar 2021, 19:25:40 UTC

Will work?

Some clarification: I meant not TV with Android OS but rather AndroidTV OS - special version of Android
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_TV
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Dr Who Fan
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Message 103610 - Posted: 19 Mar 2021, 23:59:29 UTC - in response to Message 103607.  

I don't see any way to "side load" any downloaded apk's (Google applications) such as the BOINC app.

The hardware would need some way to dissapate the large amounts of heat generated.

I have seen reports of users running BOINC on Android or Amazon Fire sticks on this board, but I believe overheating was a common issue.
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Raistmer

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Message 103620 - Posted: 20 Mar 2021, 22:48:05 UTC - in response to Message 103610.  
Last modified: 20 Mar 2021, 23:20:08 UTC

The real problem currently is interface.

I downloaded BOINC APK, put it on USB stick, plugged USB stick into Mi Box S and installed BOINC w/o any issue.

It runs.

But can't add project. Cause can't switch focus to "continue" button after selecting checkbox near needed project name.

So, BOINC for Android interface not very fit for AndroidTV.
But will try few tricks...

EDIT:
Managed to add project (E@h) it downloaded task...
But here is next issue....

BOINC waits for "battery cooling".

But box has no battery at all! So what BOINC waiting for ?....
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Message 103621 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 7:44:47 UTC - in response to Message 103620.  

But box has no battery at all! So what BOINC waiting for ?....


I don't know the answer but have seen this on an old phone which I had running from USB charger with no battery installed. my only guess was, something in the phone heating up the area where the battery temperature sensor was.

I don't know if it still works like that or if batteries have their own built in sensor? My current phone won't turn on unless battery is installed so haven't been able to test any theories with that.
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robsmith
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Message 103622 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 8:30:09 UTC - in response to Message 103620.  

How long between starting the task and the message appearing?
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Raistmer

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Message 103624 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 13:13:16 UTC

Well, question is quite rhetoric cause TV box has no battery at all just as stated.

So BOINC reads some temp sensor (or no sensor at all!) and ERRONEOUSLY links it to battery temp sensor.

Message appears IMMEDIATELY after run, not even after task started, but BEFORE task started.
So consider it just as BUG REPORT for BOINC for Android 7.16.16 (there will be no operation at all unless operator takes some actions).

Currently I circumvented this bug by setting allowed temperature unimpossible high. Computations started so there is some hope BOINC looked at some real temp sensor, not just got max_int from non-existent one.
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Message 103625 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 13:43:54 UTC - in response to Message 103624.  

Turn battery operating temperature in Settings up to something way too high.
(there will be no operation at all unless operator takes some actions)
Which is quite normal on Android, there's no installing and forgetting, you actually have to set up BOINC on the device.
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Message 103626 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 14:17:00 UTC - in response to Message 103624.  

OK, that's almost certainly the "wrong" temperature sensor being detected as the battery sensor. I think Jord's solution is about the only way to go as, sadly, I don't think every Android hardware system follows the correct use of sensors :-(
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Profile Jord
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Message 103627 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 14:23:10 UTC - in response to Message 103626.  

Worse even, every Android version does it differently. So this sensor reading (and by many other apps that read temperatures) works in one version of Android, maybe 2, and then it doesn't anymore.
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Raistmer

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Message 103628 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 19:31:34 UTC - in response to Message 103625.  

I see strong contradiction between reality (BOINC for Android isn't set and forget one) and its interface design.
BOINC for Android interface designed to provide as little tuning options as possible. Needed for just to run it options hide into "advanced" options set.
I have no probs with software that needs tuning and admits it, providing as many tunable params as it can. Actually it can even provide some fun.
But pretending to be "set and forget" with minimalistic interface....

Well, at least it runs eventually.
So BOINC can run on AndroidTV platform. These TV boxes, having 4-core ARM processors, provide definitely not less computing power than average phone.

Next step would be to use their GPU part... About year ago the answer on the question "is any project uses GPU under Android" was "no". Any changes from that time?....
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Message 103630 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 19:48:48 UTC - in response to Message 103628.  

About year ago the answer on the question "is any project uses GPU under Android" was "no". Any changes from that time?....

No, and I don't foresee a quick change either, primarily because of the heat problem. A mobile device gets rid of the heat of the GPU very difficultly. I've overheated my phone more than once while using it as a navigation device in the car, especially when the sun is also shining on it.
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Raistmer

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Message 103634 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 20:30:17 UTC - in response to Message 103630.  

But modern heavy-graphics mobile games provide comparable to crunching load...
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Profile Jord
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Message 103635 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 20:42:13 UTC - in response to Message 103634.  

And how do you make sure the GPU only gets work on modern devices, no longer on older ones that don't cool as well?
Remember that it's also default on, at this moment BOINC will always ask for work for the Mali GPU for instance. 7.4.53 already did that. It only needs a projects to add an application for the Mali GPU (all of them) and many devices out there will automatically get work and either crunch it well, crunch it badly, overheat or worse. And before we know it, complaints and possible damage claims.

There's no option to turn off the GPU either in present BOINC versions. The BOINC version uses local preferences to ask for work, it ignores what you set on the project website.
So brrr, no thanks. The moment any of the projects that now have ARM for Android applications releases a Mali GPU app, I'll withdraw my devices crunching 24/7 (I set them, put them on top of my cabinet in the living room, put a big fan next to them to blow cool air over them and forgot them).
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Message 103636 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 21:44:37 UTC - in response to Message 103635.  

Hm, not quite understand the core of issue.
BOINC for Android shouldn't behave so differently than BOINC for let say Windows.
And for example E@h has preferences on site to enable or disable GPU work for particular venue per particular app type...

And of course before release in wild alpha then beta testing should be carried out.
To evaluate heating amongst other possible issues too.
Not every phone can support heat dissipation from CPU-only processing, but nevertheless BOINC moved to mobiles... Don't see too big difference with GPU.
Ultimately user decides to use BOINC or not. And (just as E@h project example shows) project that pioneered GPU mobile processing could make it "opt-in" instead of "opt-out" (agreed that to wake some good morning and to find phone being fried because of unattended GPU app install isn't good move ). BOINC not M$ to throw bad updates on innocent peoples...
But for those who willing to try such option would be interesting IMO....
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Profile Jord
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Message 103639 - Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 22:17:03 UTC - in response to Message 103636.  
Last modified: 21 Mar 2021, 22:18:14 UTC

And for example E@h has preferences on site to enable or disable GPU work for particular venue per particular app type...
Your BOINC for Android follows built in preferences for asking for work, it'll ignore anything you set via the project website.

The older 7.4.53 didn't even have an option to set work cache, it would ask 1 task per CPU core and only ask more when those tasks were about to be returned.
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Message 103778 - Posted: 31 Mar 2021, 21:02:46 UTC

I ran Boinc on Android 4.4.0, 4.4.1, 6.x, and 9.x, 10.x and 11.x, and on all operating systems it ran fine.
I guess the project list will depend on the TV box hardware you own.
You preferably have an A70-series ARM CPU, but they run hot.
An A50-series will run, but runs slow.
An A30-series CPU might not run, and will be super slow anyway.
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Message boards : Android : BOINC & Android TV

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