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Profile Dave
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Message 108859 - Posted: 3 Jul 2022, 19:38:22 UTC

When I hear people talking about football, it's never to do with the game, it's to do with the business of buying and selling players. Why have England vs France when most of the players are from other countries?
Yorkshire Cricket Club had it right till relatively recently. To play for the county you had to be born in the county.
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Message 108861 - Posted: 3 Jul 2022, 20:43:47 UTC - in response to Message 108860.  

The noun “race” came into English in the mid-1500s from French, which got it from the Italian word razza (meaning species or kind).

The source of razza has never been determined, but it could possibly be derived from the Latin words ratio (i.e., ratio) or generatio (generation), or from the Old French haraz (which referred to horses and mares kept for breeding, and which may in turn be connected to the Arabic faras, or horse).

Whatever its origins, this sense of “race” is unrelated to the identical English word for a rushing forward (as in a footrace), which comes from early Scandinavian sources.

Over the centuries, “race” has been interpreted extremely narrowly (the descendants of a single house; a single line of descent; one’s children or family); very broadly (the animal, vegetable, or mineral kingdom; a single species); and everything in between (nations, tribes, ethnic groups).

In the phrase “human race,” the word essentially means “species.” Soon after “race” entered the language, one of its meanings (sometimes poetic and sometimes literal) was mankind, and it often was preceded by the adjective “human.”

Sir Philip Sidney wrote of “the humane race” (circa 1590) and Shakespeare of “the whole race of mankinde” (c. 1616). Sometimes people spoke of the sexes as different races – as in the “race of woman kind” (Spenser, 1590), and “the unscrupulous race of men” (Henry James, 1897).

The word was formerly used in the same way to refer to species of plants and animals, according to the Oxford English Dictionary. In Macbeth, for example, Shakespeare called Duncan’s horses “Beauteous, and swift, the Minions of their Race” (c. 1616).

John Dryden wrote of “the wolfish race … with belly Gaunt, and famish’d face” (1687); Joseph Addison, writing in The Spectator, mentioned “the several Races of Plants” (1712); Oliver Goldsmith called serpents “this formidable race” (1774); and Shelley said, “I wished the race of cows were perished” (c. 1822).

Under its definition of “race” as “any of the major groupings of mankind, having in common distinct physical features or having a similar ethnic background,” the OED adds this note:

“In recent years, the associations of race with the ideologies and theories that grew out of the work of 19th-cent. anthropologists and physiologists has led to the word often being avoided with reference to specific ethnic groups. Although it is still used in general contexts, it is now often replaced by terms such as people(s), community, etc.”
https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2009/06/why-is-the-human-race-called-a-race.html
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Profile Jord
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Message 108864 - Posted: 3 Jul 2022, 23:14:23 UTC - in response to Message 108862.  

Rofl, of course. What does the OED know, right?
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Profile Dave
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Message 108866 - Posted: 4 Jul 2022, 5:05:51 UTC

The OED just quotes common usage, like every other dictionary. I prefer the proper biological definitions.


Scientific usage and definition of words has its place. As your post was with respect to YCC having to change their policy due to EU laws on racism, (It wasn't.) this would be determined by the courts if challenged who unless there is a compelling reason to do so use OED definitions and usage in their judgements.

I bet you a fiver an EU racism law prevented them doing that.
At that time, all clubs were limited to a maximum of two overseas players by the English County Cricket Board. Yorkshire dropped the born in county requirement to play for them because without international stars from abroad they were dropping down the rankings in the County Championship.
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Message 108870 - Posted: 4 Jul 2022, 8:36:08 UTC - in response to Message 108865.  

I prefer the proper biological definitions.
Of course you do, never on these boards have you ever shown to do what the Gen Pop does, or uses. Always going against the flow. So there you go, looking it up on an American website, who point at the Greek for the origins of the word Genus while it is Latin that has it as its origins.

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-greek-and-vs-latin-language/
https://www.etymonline.com/word/race #2.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/species
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=genus
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Profile Dave
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Message 108881 - Posted: 4 Jul 2022, 11:31:40 UTC - in response to Message 108879.  
Last modified: 4 Jul 2022, 11:36:05 UTC

Then they dropped their principles and are no longer Yorkshire.
As a number of members thought at the time who then resigned from YCC. Interestingly in some years where there was a particularly large amount of international cricket, Yorkshire had benefited because they only had, English players who could be called upon for international duty but those in charge of the club at the time deemed on balance it was better for the clubs finances to allow the changes. Interesting that it didn't start to change till 1992. (Just checked and it was a bit later than I had thought. They had used the historic boundaries of the county which upset some who while being born inside the then current boundaries were excluded because older ones were used.

There is no excuse for using words incorrectly, just because everyone else does.
It would be interesting to see how that argument would go down in a British court, (England and Wales or Scotland) where the test used is often, "What would a reasonable person do or believe."
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Profile Dave
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Message 108883 - Posted: 4 Jul 2022, 11:51:28 UTC - in response to Message 108882.  

Where "reasonable" in a court would presumably bias towards the more educated who use words properly. If they're going to allow common usage, then the black folk use the n word in a non racist way among themselves, so so can I. Oops, l bet you "black" is now racist.


As they say in systemic and family therapy circles, "Context is everything."
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Profile Dave
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Message 108885 - Posted: 4 Jul 2022, 12:16:56 UTC - in response to Message 108884.  

I refuse to acknowledge anything with "therapy" in the title.


There is a big difference between someone with more money than sense going to see their analyst five times a week and someone with severe PTSD seeing a therapist because they are likely to never be able to work again or even survive in some cases without it. I worked in the mental health system for the best part of 30 years and have seen both sides of that argument.
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Message 108887 - Posted: 4 Jul 2022, 12:41:02 UTC - in response to Message 108886.  

A good therapist knows how to guide a conversation so that the person undergoing the therapy sees light at the end of their tunnel. Some friends are able to do this, but some aren't able to to do this for various reasons.
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Message 108889 - Posted: 4 Jul 2022, 13:52:31 UTC - in response to Message 108880.  
Last modified: 4 Jul 2022, 13:52:51 UTC

I do what's correct, not just follow fashion. I have a brain you see.
I do what's correct, not just follow fashion. I have a brain you see. I have a body that's different from theirs. I'm not ashamed to admit it. And if it wasn't you, it wouldn't affect me. I'd have got a better shot sooner or later.

The couple were talking with reporters at a party in a city few miles to the west of Sydney. It looked like an elaborate wedding for the newlyweds and there were people drinking champagne on the beach. The couple were all in their 30s. They spoke very loudly to each other before going to meet an Uber driver.

Mr Alder gave the man a taxi before turning onto Puffal St, one of the hottest streets in Sydney's west. He was standing in the shade, his head resting on a rock he'd built on a mountain. Mr Alder told the Sydney Morning Herald the man was going to pay him for the drive but he wasn't sure how he'd do it. He then asked if he could drive them to their son's wedding.

"Oh yeah, I guess because that's all I'm saying," Mr Alder said. "They'd be like five or ten minutes after we parked. If I had to wait five minutes he's going to pay me."
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Profile Dave
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Message 108891 - Posted: 4 Jul 2022, 13:54:23 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jul 2022, 14:05:40 UTC

Most friends are able to do such a simple thing, and being a friend makes the patient more comfortable. A complete stranger discussing things is insanity. Only any use if someone has no decent friends.


If most friends were able to do such a simple thing I would have needed to retrain and do a different job for the best part of 30 years of my life. That, like most in Child and Adolescent Mental Health services, I was busy almost constantly and often doing overtime tells me that most are not able to do such a simple thing. (Or alternatively for those who get referred to in-patient services because the community service is unable to help them, maybe it isn't such a simple thing?)

Edit:Young people only get referred even to the community service when options of help from friends, family and primary mental health workers in schools have failed.
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