Grumbles, Glory, Corona and All Your Off Topic Discussions

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Sirius B
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Message 108804 - Posted: 29 Jun 2022, 11:48:28 UTC - in response to Message 108803.  

Well rules, regulations & laws are bothersome to people that state that governments don't need to be so controlling & go out of their way to avoid them.
I like using their own rules, regulations & laws against them.
So you'll be voting for independence next year I take it?
All that lovely "Scottish" taxpayer funds wasted on printing your "own" passport & money with an an exchange rate that's lower than the Euro & British pound.
Have fun with that. :-)
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Profile Jord
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Message 108811 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 9:50:21 UTC

Grumble: all that credit Richard got, damn. He wasn't even here until late in the game. ;-)
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 108812 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 10:07:40 UTC - in response to Message 108811.  

Grumble: all that credit Richard got, damn. He wasn't even here until late in the game. ;-)
You got this morning's email, then? I'm still trying to process that, and decide how to handle it.

To me, that 'history' piece feels very much like a view from the inside, looking out: and it's somewhat different from a similar history, delivered as a talk at the 2014 BOINC Workshop in Budapest. That script has never been published online, unfortunately.

I'd love to see a companion piece, written from the outside, looking in. As you say, I wasn't involved in the early stages: I joined SETI early on, but I only volunteered my computers, not my mind and energy. I only got involved in BOINC when SETI Classic closed down, and I was impressed by what I found - that's what drew me in.

The trac wiki has a list of over 120 early contributors to the project - plus you and I, in a separate ghetto all of our own. Where did all that energy go? I might ask that question in a reply email - see if we can draw out the other half of the analysis,
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Profile Jord
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Message 108813 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 10:52:42 UTC - in response to Message 108812.  
Last modified: 30 Jun 2022, 10:53:04 UTC

You got this morning's email, then? I'm still trying to process that, and decide how to handle it.
I've answered David already, given him the more correct line of how everything went re: forum moderation. Good thing I kept all those emails.
As you say, I wasn't involved in the early stages: I joined SETI early on, but I only volunteered my computers, not my mind and energy.
As far as I know, the original small group of BOINC Alpha testers were also moderating the Seti Classic forums, plus Matt. I wasn't really active there, put all my eggs on BOINC. And just look at my ID here, I was one of the first people to join these forums. Always nice to have inside information (Rom). :)

Where did all that energy go?
AFAIK it waned out because a lot of things people wanted to add, David didn't want. If you run into that wall enough times, you just back away and never return.
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 108815 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 11:39:15 UTC - in response to Message 108813.  

I've answered David already, given him the more correct line of how everything went re: forum moderation. Good thing I kept all those emails.
Good. I thought that bit was very weak - misleading, even. I did a very short stint as a moderator at SETI, at the end of the 'wild west' period, but I burned out within two months. My problem was with the other moderators (especially with those factional fighters who were hanging on from the old days), not with the users - they were lovely. I've helped out the moderators at other projects with technical matters over the years - notably Einstein and CPDN - but I've never had formal message board moderator status, except brief periods of temporary cover here.

AFAIK it waned out because a lot of things people wanted to add, David didn't want. If you run into that wall enough times, you just back away and never return.
That's my feeling as well, but it's very hand to provide proof. Most of them just faded into the background: they didn't post a (public) resignation letter with reasons.

I have some mental timelines of when things went wrong.

  • 2008-2010: introduction of new compute resources (GPUs and VMs), with consequential scheduling and credit changes. That process was started in secret - though I remember your hints about 'NVidia Bob': you were closer than the rest of us - and I think the quality of planning and coding suffered as a result.
  • 2014-2015: that Budapest talk, and the non-renewal of NSF funding. The talk felt like a valediction as I sat and listened, but I couldn't work out why. The NSF cut-off only become public later: did I have a premonition, or did David already know?
  • 2017-2018: Kevin Reed's working group, trying to put some flesh on the bones of David's 2016 community governance concept. Especially, what I heard privately about David's reaction (deeds, not words) at the conclusion of the process.

But I don't know what to do with that information, or who to direct it at, now Kevin's departed the scene.

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Message 108816 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 13:11:58 UTC - in response to Message 108815.  

But I don't know what to do with that information, or who to direct it at, now Kevin's departed the scene.
I still have access to the BOINC FAQs server, I think. SO if I can figure out how to add you as a user there, you can write it all into a nice couple of wiki pages. I know you have an account at the official BOINC Wiki, trouble there is, if you write it there, someone will come along and remove it.

I didn't know Kevin had left, or maybe I did know but I put it aside as more urgent matters in life taking precedence.

As for the adding of Nvidia GPUs, I still wonder why I was asked. I didn't even have - and still don't have - an Nvidia GPU. 😂
It did give me a lot of insight into writing FAQs though. I had info no one else had.
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Message 108817 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 13:16:22 UTC

Sounds almost as bad as NHS internal politics!
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Message 108818 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 13:35:12 UTC - in response to Message 108817.  

Sounds almost as bad as NHS internal politics!

Worse. I got so frustrated with D Anderson I finally sent him a get well soon email "Hoping his megalomania would be cured soon" Then signed off and never spoke to him again.
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Message 108820 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 14:17:33 UTC - in response to Message 108818.  

Worse. I got so frustrated with D Anderson I finally sent him a get well soon email "Hoping his megalomania would be cured soon" Then signed off and never spoke to him again.
I had no trouble diagnosing that particular character trait from the. "his Story" piece he posted recently and had little doubt others would see it differently. Sadly, in the field of adolescent mental health where I worked for the best part of 30 years there are many whose desire for power outweighs their desire to ensure patients get the best treatment.
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Sirius B
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Message 108822 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 15:45:17 UTC - in response to Message 108820.  

I'm strange. For the past 50 years, I've always stuck to my one "belief"
We all have 3 lives. Personal/social/working.life
I have seen all the power/status crap in all 3 regularly for most of that time. It is something that no decent individual can prevent from occurring.

@ Jord, interesting link & read, thanks.
D.A. thought Boinc started declining in 2007 was disturbing to say the least, especially after I realised that there were serious issues back in 2011.
After my Boinc's death knell? thread at that time, I was so glad I publicly stated that there is no way I would would be a mod.
Sheesh, that thread brought the termites out in force. :-(

Personally, I thought Boinc was a brilliant idea as it allowed those without an academical or scientific bent to partake in various projects.
Unfortunately, termites ate away at that.
I honestly thought that Boinc would last just as long as the Star Trek franchise & longer.
After all, the faster the research done & completed, the faster that the fi in sci-fi would become fact, thereby hastening the day that it will all be a reality.
TBH, it was one of the main reasons for crunching WCG. All that data in "Bones" medical recorder had to be accumulated from somewhere. :-)
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Message 108823 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 16:33:57 UTC - in response to Message 108822.  

@ Jord, interesting link & read, thanks.
David posted it in the News 15 days ago, I never checked up on it until I saw his e-mail this morning.

my Boinc's death knell? thread
For those wanting an evening's read by the fire: https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=64792
Star quote: The debate is not about Aqua but the tightening up of DA's credit in which he wants ALL projects to award credit similar to S@H.
Yeah, that worked out. 🤣
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Message 108825 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 17:11:24 UTC

For those wanting an evening's read by the fire:
Have read the first page. Might leave the rest till the weather cools down and I am lighting the wood stove again ;)
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robsmith
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Message 108826 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 17:47:11 UTC - in response to Message 108823.  

Thank Jord.
Interesting to read DA's thoughts. I'm going to have to read them a few times to understand exactly what he's saying.
But a couple of standouts...
2007 - Is that the point when DA realised he'd "lost control" of BOINC as volunteers and projects had taken up the lead?
Then there's his thought that all projects should use the same (broken??) credit system that SETI used? I can just hear a large number of projects saying "Why?" and "We are quite happy with the way we award credits so....". While I understand DA's reasoning I feel that quite a number of projects would have struggled to do the required tuning that DA's credits scheme required.
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Message 108828 - Posted: 30 Jun 2022, 19:13:07 UTC - in response to Message 108826.  

IMHO, DA's "credit new" scheme has never worked as intended and never will.

That is why projects like Einstein and PrimeGrid have fixed credits on each type of tasks.

Some recently new project admins have struggled to figure out how "credit new" is awarding wild point swings for same tasks when the users start complaining on their message boards about it.
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