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Profile Dave

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Message 96447 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 19:30:18 UTC

Ouch! That's about HALF the price of here. I'm looking for better deals.... Why do you have such cheap electricity? I think one answer might be most of ours goes to fund the green energy nonsense, so I'm paying for all those new wind farms to be built. Maybe in the long run that will provide almost free electricity? Technically - no fuel cost, very cheap to run?


On shore wind is now the cheapest power to produce in UK. We have 2KW of solar on the house but haven't got one of the gizmos to pump all the unused generation into the hot water so we get paid for it all as well as using it. When we have the spare cash will get another 2KW but that won't attract the high feed in tariff that the original 2KW did. Personally, I think the 20% for environmental and social is well worth it but as with anything political there will be plenty who don't agree with me.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 96448 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 19:41:47 UTC - in response to Message 96447.  
Last modified: 5 Mar 2020, 19:42:52 UTC

Ouch! That's about HALF the price of here. I'm looking for better deals.... Why do you have such cheap electricity? I think one answer might be most of ours goes to fund the green energy nonsense, so I'm paying for all those new wind farms to be built. Maybe in the long run that will provide almost free electricity? Technically - no fuel cost, very cheap to run?


On shore wind is now the cheapest power to produce in UK. We have 2KW of solar on the house but haven't got one of the gizmos to pump all the unused generation into the hot water so we get paid for it all as well as using it. When we have the spare cash will get another 2KW but that won't attract the high feed in tariff that the original 2KW did. Personally, I think the 20% for environmental and social is well worth it but as with anything political there will be plenty who don't agree with me.


If wind is so cheap, why is my electricity bill going up and up? The unit price is getting much higher over the last few years. Probably paying for your feed in tariff! I tried to get solar twice, but I mistimed it and the government changed the tariff just as I ordered it, so both companies backed out. I strongly disagree that people should be paid more than the value of what they make, the solar nonsense is absurd, but yes I obviously tried to take advantage of it. Like child benefits, it's insane, but you take it if it's there. Everything should cost what it actually costs, when oil runs low, it will cost more, so people will automatically use green energy. There's no need to throw tax money everywhere.
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Profile Dave

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Message 96450 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 20:41:35 UTC - in response to Message 96448.  

Ouch! That's about HALF the price of here. I'm looking for better deals.... Why do you have such cheap electricity? I think one answer might be most of ours goes to fund the green energy nonsense, so I'm paying for all those new wind farms to be built. Maybe in the long run that will provide almost free electricity? Technically - no fuel cost, very cheap to run?


On shore wind is now the cheapest power to produce in UK. We have 2KW of solar on the house but haven't got one of the gizmos to pump all the unused generation into the hot water so we get paid for it all as well as using it. When we have the spare cash will get another 2KW but that won't attract the high feed in tariff that the original 2KW did. Personally, I think the 20% for environmental and social is well worth it but as with anything political there will be plenty who don't agree with me.


If wind is so cheap, why is my electricity bill going up and up? The unit price is getting much higher over the last few years. Probably paying for your feed in tariff! I tried to get solar twice, but I mistimed it and the government changed the tariff just as I ordered it, so both companies backed out. I strongly disagree that people should be paid more than the value of what they make, the solar nonsense is absurd, but yes I obviously tried to take advantage of it. Like child benefits, it's insane, but you take it if it's there. Everything should cost what it actually costs, when oil runs low, it will cost more, so people will automatically use green energy. There's no need to throw tax money everywhere.


It is a lot less than the subsidies for nuclear.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 96451 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 21:03:08 UTC - in response to Message 96450.  

It is a lot less than the subsidies for nuclear.


Possibly. Although EDF (my electric company) used to let me choose which type of power I wanted. I was given the choice of "normal", "green", or "nuclear". Nuclear was cheaper so I chose that. Nowadays I think it's compulsory to fund the green rubbish.
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 96452 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 22:04:19 UTC - in response to Message 96448.  

If wind is so cheap, why is my electricity bill going up and up?
Largely because David Cameron blocked onshore wind to appease the nimbys in his own party.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 96454 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 22:16:51 UTC - in response to Message 96452.  
Last modified: 5 Mar 2020, 22:18:58 UTC

If wind is so cheap, why is my electricity bill going up and up?
Largely because David Cameron blocked onshore wind to appease the nimbys in his own party.


But the UK is 1/3rd wind power now. Where is all my electricity money going?

And I can't read that article, they want paid.

I do find it amusing anyone could object to the slight whoosh sound of a wind farm - there's one on the top of the Ochils near me, it's a wonderful noise, like waterfalls. I think anyone objecting should have a coal plant placed in their back garden so they can compare and contrast.
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 96455 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 22:33:31 UTC - in response to Message 96454.  

And I can't read that article, they want paid.
Sorry, they must allow Goggle searches one free hit - I can't see it now, either.

This one should work better: onshore wind
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Peter Hucker
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Message 96456 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 22:58:16 UTC - in response to Message 96455.  

And I can't read that article, they want paid.
Sorry, they must allow Goggle searches one free hit - I can't see it now, either.

This one should work better: onshore wind


Thanks, I didn't know the conservatives were that stupid. I thought they were all for healthy competition. If something can make electricity cheaper, it should be allowed to go ahead.
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robsmith
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Message 96464 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 8:16:01 UTC

Don't confuse "potential" and "actual" energy supply, there's a website which gives a fascinating insight into exactly where the UK is getting its electricity from in almost real-time:
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
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Profile Dave

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Message 96466 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 9:08:25 UTC - in response to Message 96464.  

Don't confuse "potential" and "actual" energy supply, there's a website which gives a fascinating insight into exactly where the UK is getting its electricity from in almost real-time:
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/


And solar doesn't even feature according to that site unless I am going blind?

(I did replace the cords on the blackout for our Velux window in the bedroom yesterday so could be a certified blind man?)
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Profile Dave

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Message 96467 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 9:14:44 UTC - in response to Message 96456.  

Thanks, I didn't know the conservatives were that stupid. I thought they were all for healthy competition. If something can make electricity cheaper, it should be allowed to go ahead.


Most politicians suffer from extreme short term thinking because they might so easily be out of a job in five years time or less.
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 96470 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 9:47:16 UTC - in response to Message 96466.  

And solar doesn't even feature according to that site unless I am going blind?
It's there, in red in the third column. Daytime only, for perhaps obvious reasons.
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robsmith
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Message 96473 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 13:11:36 UTC

Most solar production in the UK is not on the industrial scale into the distribution network, but on a local or domestic scale. Local or domestic users don't show as production on the figures from the National Grid but as a reduction in demand.
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ProDigit

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Message 96474 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 16:15:13 UTC - in response to Message 96446.  
Last modified: 6 Mar 2020, 16:23:04 UTC

Here in Florida, you only get 2 phases (out of 3).
One for fridge, ac, washer and dryer, and kitchen, the second phase for the rest of the house.
And that's 50Amps (on 2 lines). The AC uses 30 amps out of the 50 max.
I get allocated a single outlet with a 15A breaker. On the wall, that's only 1440-1470W continuous, before the breaker trips.
That means we still have a good 30A for the remainder of the house. I don't think that's that bad.


That's absurd. I assume you're talking about 50 amps at only 120V. That's a quarter of what I can take in the UK. Ok, so in Florida not much required for heating, but still, a very small amount if you use electricity to cook. I used to use about 6kW just for computers, that would have maxed out your total house. Turn on a light aswell and oops, too much! Don't you have things like an electric shower? That uses 8kW. And a cooker, that's 7kW.

The AC is the biggest power draw.
The water heater is not that big, since it's Florida, and the tap water is 75+F. 7kW. The stovetop 1.5kW per burner. I never use it.
While FPL guarantees 50A per line, occasionally I've ran ac, water and microwave all at the same time (that's <45 kW on the first line) without needing more.

I still have the second line for PC, lights, tv, and all other ac socket tools.

All the bulbs are leds, and the TV uses <100W. The fridge averages at 54w. So they're pretty much negligable compared to the ac. Not sure what else I use in the house... 1200W vacuum cleaner? Perhaps 60W on Christmas decorations?


You say LEDs, but not long ago you would have had incandescents, with the same lines.

So I take it you get 50A on each of two *120V* lines. So that equates to about half of what I get in the UK. I think I would have blown the main fuse a few times. In the UK it's a fuse not a breaker, and they don't like you blowing it as they have to come out and change it. Although anyone with an ounce of common sense buys a new one on Ebay for a fiver and changes it themselves. If they ask "why is the tamper proof seal broken" I say "because I was working on my fuse panel and needed it shut off" (yes they have no main switch!!)

So, you could use the 7kW water heater (that is actually huge, most in the UK are 3kW) and cook a meal on all 4 burners, adding another 6kW. Then turn on the oven for presumably about 3kW, while someone is taking a shower at another 8kW. That adds up to 24kW. That's the UK limit, but twice yours. I've had mine up to 20kW in the past. And what happens if you happen to draw it all from one line?

Umm, no, I get 50 amps per line. That's 100 amps total, or ~10kW continuous. I could in theory fast charge a Tesla at my house, while ac is running, 3 stoves, 1 microwave, 1 vacuum cleaner, 2x 1000W GPU servers, taking a shower, doing the dishes, and all the lights and amenities on at the same time.
Though I've never had this happen, in part because I don't own a Tesla, and in part because, for the most part it was just me. Kind of hard to be everywhere at the same time...😬

Also, the shower is connected to the water heater.
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Profile Jord
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Message 96477 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 16:56:57 UTC - in response to Message 96454.  
Last modified: 6 Mar 2020, 16:58:13 UTC

But the UK is 1/3rd wind power now. Where is all my electricity money going?
If it's anything to go by, the same as in The Netherlands: subsidies. Windmills turn on subsidies. They generate electricity but never enough to power the whole country. They also won't generate electricity when there's not enough wind (under force 3) or too much wind (above force 7, some even get shut at 6). Solar power doesn't bring up enough for half the year, during the winter, because the sun isn't strong enough to power the solenoids. If there is sun, because any cloud cover and you can kiss the solar goodbye. So even solar runs mostly on subsidies. And subsidies are paid for by you, via direct or indirect taxes.

The only people making money on wind and solar are the people receiving the subsidies. The whole climate hoax is one big scam.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 96478 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 18:59:42 UTC - in response to Message 96474.  

Umm, no, I get 50 amps per line. That's 100 amps total, or ~10kW continuous. I could in theory fast charge a Tesla at my house, while ac is running, 3 stoves, 1 microwave, 1 vacuum cleaner, 2x 1000W GPU servers, taking a shower, doing the dishes, and all the lights and amenities on at the same time.
Though I've never had this happen, in part because I don't own a Tesla, and in part because, for the most part it was just me. Kind of hard to be everywhere at the same time...😬

Also, the shower is connected to the water heater.


100A at 120V is half what I get in the UK (we are on 240V), and I've used 3/4s of my allowance quite a few times, which would have blown your main fuse. I'm glad I don't live over there!
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Peter Hucker
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Message 96479 - Posted: 6 Mar 2020, 19:01:48 UTC - in response to Message 96477.  

But the UK is 1/3rd wind power now. Where is all my electricity money going?
If it's anything to go by, the same as in The Netherlands: subsidies. Windmills turn on subsidies. They generate electricity but never enough to power the whole country. They also won't generate electricity when there's not enough wind (under force 3) or too much wind (above force 7, some even get shut at 6). Solar power doesn't bring up enough for half the year, during the winter, because the sun isn't strong enough to power the solenoids. If there is sun, because any cloud cover and you can kiss the solar goodbye. So even solar runs mostly on subsidies. And subsidies are paid for by you, via direct or indirect taxes.

The only people making money on wind and solar are the people receiving the subsidies. The whole climate hoax is one big scam.


Well put, I agree with your post in its entirety.

When I were a lad, at least the right wing governments didn't do all this subsidising nonsense, now they're all at it.
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Profile Dave

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Message 96549 - Posted: 9 Mar 2020, 10:24:49 UTC - in response to Message 96479.  

The only people making money on wind and solar are the people receiving the subsidies. The whole climate hoax is one big scam.


Not according to the scientists. It is not easy to find a peer reviewed paper on the side of the climate change deniers. I have only seen two against hundreds supporting it.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 96565 - Posted: 9 Mar 2020, 19:07:08 UTC - in response to Message 96549.  

The only people making money on wind and solar are the people receiving the subsidies. The whole climate hoax is one big scam.


Not according to the scientists. It is not easy to find a peer reviewed paper on the side of the climate change deniers. I have only seen two against hundreds supporting it.


I don't need science to tell me it's baloney. Think about it. The climate changes all the time - it has done since well before man had industry. We've always had ice ages. And the key thing these alarmists tell us is too much CO2! Er.... I'm sorry, CO2 is what plants breathe. More of that is a good thing, better crops, you know, like it was before coal and oil and gas were formed? Ask any farmer what happens with huge amounts of CO2 - enormous crops - they pump it into polytunnels on purpose. And since the planet had that CO2 in the air before we got coal/oil/gas deposits, it must have been fine back then....
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Profile Dave

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Message 96585 - Posted: 10 Mar 2020, 7:10:25 UTC - in response to Message 96565.  

And since the planet had that CO2 in the air before we got coal/oil/gas deposits, it must have been fine back then....


And the temperature was about 8C higher than today meaning no polar ice caps which will be a pretty major problem for coastal communities if it ever gets back up to a global mean temperature of 23C.
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