Go on then, there is plenty of need for it. Go have your discussions about the new man in the White House, in Germany, In The Netherlands, in Wherever. This thread is moderated by Ageless only, but keep in mind that he may have his own views about the argument.

I will not be reading this thread - or these forums - 24/7. When you do find yourself in a flaming argument, take a step back and stop posting. Use the red-x on flame posts. I'll come by as soon as my time allows me to.

The rules:
- No swearing whatsoever.
- No name calling the other guy you're in discussion with.
- No denigrating comments about other posters.
- Keep it civil.
- No ad hominem attacks.
- Please post without your signature. You can disable your signature on individual posts by unchecking the Add my signature to this post. When posting in a hurry, go back to edit your post and uncheck it please.

"Bernie isn't taking over. He will not moderate this thread, this is my domain. He's allowed to post his opinion in this thread but is under the same rules as everyone else. He knows that, now you do too."

The question is though - Will they vote?

You are utterly priceless :-))) Thank god Bernie is here.

Nope 100% Jord here as has already been said.

Can we add brown nosing to the rules on the left?

Diane Abbott says she will be back in action soon after it was announced she was "taking a break" from campaigning.

Anyone really surprised by this maybe " Comrade " Corbyn should join her ;-)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40184826

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Can we add brown nosing to the rules on the left?

I wore out my welcome the last time i was here, trying to get off on the right foot and hopefully stay there this time.

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I've just lost what was a long reply (to this). After it was complete. AND ready to POST *flame thread* And in the time it took to get it done - a lot happened that I've only just seen, so I don't think I'll attempt to reconstruct it because it would mean quoting extensively from the previous thread, which I think you'll all agree might be best if I did not ;)

There are a couple a few some things I would like to say though.

My apologies for coming over as resentful in my previous post is the first. I have no personal reason nor right to be. The "status" my outer appearance afforded me saw to that. It did not stop me feeling personal shame to be a part of what I considered to be unjust though, and deeply saddened for those not like me. If I posted with a vestige of anything, could it have been that which was mistaken for resentment? Anyway :) I just thought I should clear up any misunderstandings. I didn't realise that was how I come across :( I was born a foreigner - at a time that gave me a Zambian birth certificate, but not citizenship.

Until ending up in South Africa, I wasn't in any other countries long enough to be naturalised. Then South Africa decided I would not be allowed to be a teacher unless I had: "citizenship retraining"; and renounced my residual right to second generation British residency. I politely declined to do either. Even though I was born before the cut-off the Thatcher government brought in. when the rules were changed it did make it obvious that still having the right to come and live in the UK didn't mean I was particularly welcome to - but I came anyway :) and staked a claim to some of the copper here that had come out of the ground nearby to where I was born. So when I pipe up about matters of exploitation, I do so as someone who recognises how much I have benefitted from it too. Or at least that is my intention. I should probably hold my tongue more though :) especially if I'm failing to get that across. I've never quite fitted in anywhere - and my perspective on many things has so frequently been different to others I've become accustomed to not being too fazed when it happens. Take these examples plucked from what I remember of my lost post...

I had observations that pondered on: Whether Idi Amin serving our military interests in crushing dissent (in both Kenya and Somalia) might have given him a framework he thought was acceptable to us to model himself on in Uganda...? and; The British meddling in the Zimbabwean elections (in the belief Mugabe would toe our line because he was educated here) that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of supporters of Joshua Nkomo, a man who would have done so much better by all his people than the travesty we've seen played out ever since, despite him not being overly enamoured with wearing suits... but those observations were only there because you brought them into the discussion, Chris ;) not out of resentment. I will admit to having a teensy issue with the term: "we gave them independence" though - just because it has somewhat patronising overtones. Something like "ceded to their right to independence" wouldn't lodge in my nose quite so readily ;) But that's neither here nor there.

My point is: if my critiques were to lead to having to return to the foreign shores I came from - I would have nowhere I've been to to go to that would have me - so is it best I moderate how I express my views? :) I realised how really out of touch I am when I knew I'd be in the 10% not rejoicing at the USA wiping out North Korea. I think because it seemed a trifle extremist to me... and when I had to scrape my eyebrows off the ceiling at why the BBC might have decided not to cover any other terror incidences, when at least two other channels gave equal coverage to both of Saturday's attacks, I couldn't help thinking it would be really really stupid if something as insignificant as to not even pop it occasionally into a text feed at the bottom of the screen, had the potential to recruit more bombers than the three fewer that no one has to worry about any more. Which was why, on reflection - I thought it was probably just as well they didn't cover it at all if that is how they would have done so :\ and then there was a fleeting thought about how my understanding of the extremist's view on infidels being an offence to Islam is that it wasn't too long ago that it was mostly about where we had our feet... on their soil or ours.

See what I mean? I think it's stuff like that that makes me blink extensively when people confuse me with being politically correct. Weird or what? :)

I will continue to make a special effort to smile at those who emerge on our streets looking anxious and worried whenever attacks like London, Manchester, Paris etc take place. I like the relief I see in their eyes, and the relaxation in their demeanour, and having my smile returned :) I like to think it helps a little - because I know how it feels to be spat at, and that definitely definitely doesn't help quite a lot of a lot :[

On other matters, I have no problems with any of our moderators :) If I step out of line I expect to be told and I expect myself to learn from it. I think it's because I have a thing about consequences and repercussions :) so whilst it was sweet of you to leap to my defence, Chris :) Jord is right... to have been left off his list would have led to my PMing him, probably out of curiosity to see if I was being filtered ;)) I rarely post with the expectation anyone will agree with me. It's lovely when people do :) but it can get REALLY interesting when with polite consideration they don't :) The other way of doing it does get a bit fraught I think, but I definitely don't think my views on anything need to be afforded any more respect than anyone else's by anyone at all

:)

Just back from the Roundabout, voted for Zebedee but couldn't see any magic.

Looks like they're having some fun in Chatham for the next two weeks :-)

Any chance the Dutch can sail up the Thames & sort out that lot at Westminster?

Just back from the Roundabout, voted for Zebedee but couldn't see any magic

4t I'd told you Sirius , you got to go to Dougal's underground sugar cube stash and take a couple then wait between 20 - 40 minutes for the efects to start , or you could always join Emintrude and munch on the mushies , Dylan might let you have a toke or two ;-)
The original " Magic Roundabout " is loads better than the revamped BHLL P.C version .

I voted a couple of weeks ago when me postal vote came through here , after Brexit ,and the American Elections who know's whats going to happen when the count starts at 10 pm tonight .
They say things happen in 3's so won't be surprised to find " Comrade " Corbyn in no 10 with that numpty Abbot as home sec
;-);-);-);-);-);-)

That reminds me Chris never did answer if he was on a " secret " Lib Dem commitie " testing " out one of their policys ???? hehe ;-) ;-) ( if you are Chris I'll help out , out of the goodness of me little heart :-) ( but only after I've finished playing , whoops mean working don't I :-) ))

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Looks like they're having some fun in Chatham for the next two weeks :-)

Any chance the Dutch can sail up the Thames & sort out that lot at Westminster?

Well, there's a precedent...

Fascinating link, Sirius - thanks for sharing it. Yes, I'm one of the ones who wasn't taught about that episode in school, and hadn't picked up on in my developing interest in non-school history in later life - even though I've been following the anniversary stories of the Great Fire the year before and (to a lesser extent) the Plague the year before that.

But just 21 years after the Battle of Medway came The Glorious Revolution, when the English King was deposed and replaced by, yes, a Dutchman (and his wife).

Many parallels between the second half of the 17th century and the first half of the 21st - religious sectarianism (protestant/catholic and sunni/shia), to name but one. Let's hope it doesn't take 21 years to pass a replacement Bill of Rights, after Theresa May's threat on Tuesday night to tear up the existing one.

Correction from another link - a Dutch woman (and her husband).

Looks like they're having some fun in Chatham for the next two weeks :-)

Ah Michiel de Ruyter and Cornelis de Wit doing exactly what the English fleet had done 8 months earlier at Vlieland and Terschelling, burning 150 Dutch ships and killing approx. 2,000 sailors.
Here I thought you'd be celebrating the Viking raid on the abbey at Lindisfarne in 793, or George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four being published in 1949.

I've always found history fascinating. As for that part of it, knew about it during my cadet days. Spent a few weeks at HMS Pembroke the RN shore establishment at Chatham. The Medway has an extremely strong current which I & 5 others found out to our cost. We took a 16 man whaler out & flew down the Medway, but when it was time to row back & row against the current, we suffered, fortunately we managed to secure a tow back :-)

Always liked our Naval traditions & applied in 1972 for the Navy, passed all the tests except one, the medical. A squint in my right eye :-(
Wasn't a problem with the Army thankfully.

As for your 2nd link, yes they were turbulent days.
"though bloodshed in England was limited, the revolution was only secured in Ireland and Scotland by force and with much loss of life."

Politics & religion, sad bedfellows.

Wasn't taught much about the Vikings & after school, only concentrated on military history in the 19th & 20th centuries.

Wow, did I hear that exit poll right? This is going to be an interesting (and long!) night.

Well the polls haven't been spot on for the past 18 months :-)

But the exit poll in 2015 was a lot closer than the campaign opinion polls. We wait and see - the first two real results didn't exactly confirm the exit poll.

A comment from the BBC "Live" updates...

"Senior Tories have now crunched their own numbers, and are convinced the exit poll is wrong. "It simply just doesn’t add up" "

...hmm, is it possible that this election will backfire on May?

Edit: Definitely won't be happy driving down to Addenbrookes in 9 hours time hearing that Abbott is Home Secretary & Thornberry Foreign Secretary :-(

That's the question of the night. BBC European editor is saying the EU wanted a single strong leader - any leader - above all else. And that seems the least likely outcome at this early stage.