Grumbles, Glory and Covid-19

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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 98027 - Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 21:30:14 UTC - in response to Message 98026.  

But I can't see why anyone would think proprietary things are good. Compatibility is always good.
Peter when used properly Cuda is more efficient than open CL.
Compatibility is always slow?
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betreger
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Message 98029 - Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 21:51:39 UTC - in response to Message 98027.  

Richard IIRC wasn't that part of the Raistmer/Jason Gee blow up some years ago?
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98030 - Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 21:55:39 UTC - in response to Message 98026.  

But I can't see why anyone would think proprietary things are good. Compatibility is always good.

Peter when used properly Cuda is more efficient than open CL.


Then AMD should use it too, or develop their own.

Everything should be open source.

I detest Nvidia for creating something good then hiding it.
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Profile Jord
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Message 98031 - Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 22:08:01 UTC - in response to Message 98030.  

AMD had their own, it was called CAL. But they threw it out in favour of OpenCL, so there wasn't need for developing two different programming languages. Nvidia chose to develop their CUDA heavily and left OpenCL at a standstill, which is why even today some of their top models only have OpenCL 1.2 support, while OpenCL is at version 2.2

But none of that matters, because OpenCL (and OpenGL) is at the end of its lifetime, we're all going to use Vulkan next. And that has nothing to do with Start Trek.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98032 - Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 22:19:31 UTC - in response to Message 98031.  

AMD had their own, it was called CAL. But they threw it out in favour of OpenCL, so there wasn't need for developing two different programming languages. Nvidia chose to develop their CUDA heavily and left OpenCL at a standstill, which is why even today some of their top models only have OpenCL 1.2 support, while OpenCL is at version 2.2

But none of that matters


Oh thanks a bunch, now I have the Metallica song stuck in my head.

because OpenCL (and OpenGL) is at the end of its lifetime, we're all going to use Vulkan next. And that has nothing to do with Start Trek.


So this will work on AMD and Nvidia, and with Boinc, on all projects, and faster? I'd never heard of it before and the Wikipedia page seems to be referring to games, not distributed computing.
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Profile Jord
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Message 98033 - Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 23:12:28 UTC - in response to Message 98032.  

I never said it was faster, although it's leaner than OpenGL as far as I understand it. As for the Wikipedia page, you read the first sentence, right? "Vulkan is a low-overhead, cross-platform 3D graphics and computing API", with computing pointing to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compute_kernel, the exact stuff our GPUs are doing under CUDA, OpenCL (and in some extent DirectCompute from Microsoft). And read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)#Planned_features
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98034 - Posted: 23 Apr 2020, 23:40:38 UTC - in response to Message 98033.  

I never said it was faster, although it's leaner than OpenGL as far as I understand it. As for the Wikipedia page, you read the first sentence, right? "Vulkan is a low-overhead, cross-platform 3D graphics and computing API", with computing pointing to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compute_kernel, the exact stuff our GPUs are doing under CUDA, OpenCL (and in some extent DirectCompute from Microsoft). And read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)#Planned_features


You expect me to notice every word!?

So leaner means? Less RAM usage? I did notice it says something about multiple CPU cores - both would be good for Einstein Gravity WUs, which currently rely too much on the CPU and the GPU can get underused. And since they use a lot of GPU RAM, it's impossible to run multiple ones at the same time.
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Profile Jord
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Message 98036 - Posted: 24 Apr 2020, 0:10:20 UTC - in response to Message 98034.  

So leaner means? Less RAM usage?
Mostly lower overhead so, but also less bloatedness, as the video card drivers don't need AND OpenCL AND OpenGL components, but can just do with Vulkan.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98037 - Posted: 24 Apr 2020, 1:18:44 UTC - in response to Message 98036.  

So leaner means? Less RAM usage?
Mostly lower overhead so, but also less bloatedness, as the video card drivers don't need AND OpenCL AND OpenGL components, but can just do with Vulkan.


But will Vulcan run games which require OpenGL? If not, the driver will still need that present.
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TimeLord04
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Message 98053 - Posted: 24 Apr 2020, 22:03:13 UTC - in response to Message 98037.  
Last modified: 24 Apr 2020, 22:10:28 UTC

So leaner means? Less RAM usage?
Mostly lower overhead so, but also less bloatedness, as the video card drivers don't need AND OpenCL AND OpenGL components, but can just do with Vulkan.


But will Vulcan run games which require OpenGL? If not, the driver will still need that present.

VulKan, (NOT VulCan), is/will be used in Windows and Linux.

Apple has developed "Metal" and "Metal2" for MacOS. Vulkan WILL NOT run on MacOS.... (Even though the PC Sapphire Radeon Pulse RX-580 Card and the Mac Sapphire Radeon Pulse RX-580 Card are PHYSICALLY Identical.)

IF one has Dual Boot on a Mac, (both Windows and MacOS), the GPU under Windows would use Vulkan and under MacOS use Metal/Metal2.
The only caveat for MacOS is the High Sierra 10.13.x Operating System under which one MAY choose to use NVIDIA Pascal Cards,
(10x0 Models), and in High Sierra the Pascal Cards CAN make use of CUDA, (under the 418.163 NVIDIA CUDA Driver), or OpenCL
under the NVIDIA Web Driver - the Latest is 387.10.10.10.40.135. Pascal Cards DO NOT function under Mojave NOR Catalina. So,
IF one, on MacOS, wants the Latest OS AND a modern PCI-e GPU or e-GPU then one MUST use AMD/ATI Cards.

The functionality, (as I understand it), of Vulkan and Metal/Metal2 are equivalent. Vulkan is PC and Metal/Metal2 is MacOS.

[EDIT:]

OpenCL, and OpenGL WILL still function for Games. As Jord said; however, these protocols are near or at End-Of-Life. Apple under MacOS has already
deprecated OpenCL though it still functions under Mojave and Catalina.

As Vulkan and Metal/Metal2 become more prevalent and mainstream, OpenCL and OpenGL will go from being just deprecated to UNUSED/Killed Off.


TL
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos
Pluto is still a planet
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98054 - Posted: 24 Apr 2020, 22:15:42 UTC - in response to Message 98053.  

VulKan, (NOT VulCan), is/will be used in Windows and Linux.


I'm not one for spelling accuracy.

Apple has developed "Metal" and "Metal2" for MacOS. Vulkan WILL NOT run on MacOS.... (Even though the PC Sapphire Radeon Pulse RX-580 Card and the Mac Sapphire Radeon Pulse RX-580 Card are PHYSICALLY Identical.)


Yet another reason to avoid those pesky incompatible Macs.

IF one, on MacOS, wants the Latest OS AND a modern PCI-e GPU or e-GPU then one MUST use AMD/ATI Cards.


Yet another reason to avoid those pesky incompatible Nvidias!
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Profile Jord
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Message 98154 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 16:23:47 UTC

All preparations for the move done. I'm way ahead of schedule. Moving the 14th, now everything is boxed already.
Tuesday I get the keys.
Thursday they'll put the floor in.
Can't wait.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98155 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 16:43:29 UTC - in response to Message 98154.  

All preparations for the move done. I'm way ahead of schedule. Moving the 14th, now everything is boxed already.
Tuesday I get the keys.
Thursday they'll put the floor in.
Can't wait.


Must be nice to get things done for you - I've been building my extension for years :-/
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Profile Jord
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Message 98157 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 16:56:01 UTC - in response to Message 98155.  

Only my floor.. I'm laying everything else myself, including all cabling for all my devices. And been packing up for the past week and a half, all alone. All those so called friends who always said they would help.... haven't seen anyone.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98158 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 16:59:55 UTC - in response to Message 98157.  
Last modified: 29 Apr 2020, 17:00:19 UTC

Only my floor.. I'm laying everything else myself, including all cabling for all my devices. And been packing up for the past week and a half, all alone. All those so called friends who always said they would help.... haven't seen anyone.


So what are you moving into that has the floor missing?

I'm putting in my own floor, when I get the time!
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Profile Jord
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Message 98170 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 20:39:29 UTC - in response to Message 98158.  

Well, there is a floor in my new apartment, but it's just a raw concrete floor. So I'll have someone lay a nice laminate floor into it. Walks a little better.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98171 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 20:49:56 UTC - in response to Message 98170.  
Last modified: 29 Apr 2020, 20:50:50 UTC

Well, there is a floor in my new apartment, but it's just a raw concrete floor. So I'll have someone lay a nice laminate floor into it. Walks a little better.


I hate laminate. Carpet is softer to walk on. And you can fit laminate yourself, you're so lazy :-P

And would you believe it, I actually managed to get a post deleted from in here! The chat forum! All I did was test my signature was working. Some people.
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Profile Jord
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Message 98172 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 20:55:05 UTC - in response to Message 98171.  

I hate laminate. Carpet is softer to walk on.
Carpet and computers don't mix. Static electricity up the whazoo.
And you can fit laminate yourself, you're so lazy :-P
Actually, I cannot. I tried in a room in this apartment and the result isn't nice, it took me 3 days to do that room and it's just 8 square meters. I'm not going to do a whole 54 square meter apartment as then the floor won't be ready when the movers come.

And would you believe it, I actually managed to get a post deleted from in here! The chat forum!
Congrats. Now you belong to the club (of bad bad people). :P
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Peter Hucker
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Message 98175 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 21:08:27 UTC - in response to Message 98172.  
Last modified: 29 Apr 2020, 21:14:09 UTC

Carpet and computers don't mix. Static electricity up the whazoo.


Are you like my friend Ronnie? He used to zap any electronic part he picked up. It was either his body or his clothing that was different. I don't think carpet is a problem. I've got carpet here and I've never zapped a thing. Never felt a shock myself either. I never bothered with those anti-static straps, I used to just touch an earthed computer case first, now I don't even bother with that. Modern stuff has diode protection from static.

Actually, I cannot. I tried in a room in this apartment and the result isn't nice, it took me 3 days to do that room and it's just 8 square meters.


Cool! I've found someone worse at DIY than me! I did a room easily, I just bought that stuff that clicks together. I did another room with the stuff you glue together. It looked quite professional :-)

I'm not going to do a whole 54 square meter apartment as then the floor won't be ready when the movers come.


You nearly beat me. Mine is 49 square metres. But I just added a 13 square metre room on the back, so I beat you with 62. And since my garage is 15, that kinda counts too as I converted it to a workshop. It will eventually be joined to the house. I do enjoy this virus nonsense, sitting at home on government handouts doing the things I never got round to.

Congrats. Now you belong to the club (of bad bad people). :P


You should see my driving.
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betreger
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Message 98177 - Posted: 29 Apr 2020, 21:28:48 UTC

I put something called deluxe vinyl flooring in my kitchen. It is a tongue and groove cork wood. It looks and feels like the real thing and is more durable, 30yr warranty for residential, 15yrs for commercial.
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