Posts by yomshleeshee

1) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17151) Posted 3 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: John, ... Some projects will only exist for a semester, as a student project, or maybe only for a year or two. A Ph.D. candidate has a neat idea, but it requires more computing power than the campus Beowulf machine. She writes her code using the BOINC API and sets up a small project on her office machine. Computers from both on and off campus attach and crunch on her problem. Six months later she has her results, and the project shuts down. She writes up her results as a dissertation, defends it, and away she goes to do other interesting things. And this could be happening all over the world... I just wanted to reiterate what Eric is saying. My project is an excellent example of this (quoted part). Our cluster did not suit my needs (nor could I compete for time). Having already been running boinc, I though it could be useful. Asked around on my team to see if anyone would help and before I knew it I have ~180 users! What will the future of the project be when, knocks on wood, I get the thesis written. Don't know (at least the url will change ;) ). That's one good reason for simply leaving every thing with the project up to me. I mean it's a free net you can always make your own website, install a wiki or some other thing and do all of the things you want, I don't feel the need to have another place to update things. It's your call. I would also like to say I though the debate was quite informative and has given me a few things to consider on my own project as well (perhaps to add after my summer courses; 60ish students in 4 weeks O.O ). Thanks for the suggestion and discussion.
2) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17097) Posted 2 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: This is not going to effect any individual project, so yomshleeshee, you can relax. I am not suggesting in any way that anyone is going to change your project. You are running a fine project and doing an excellent job! Lol. Thanks John! Well, I think your and Mike O's suggests were starting to diverge a good bit. But this post is quite well put. So... The big difference between the new website and the BOINC Berkeley website would be the fact that this website would have an open management structure where any BOINC project administrator could login to the administrative features of the website. But equally, ordinary BOINC users could also create an account on the website and submit contributions to any of a number of different categories. Any project admin that does not want to be part of this is welcome to just continue as things are now, nothing would change. Again, I really hate to sound like a squeaky wheel here. But this seem a bit redundant with teams and Account managers. BUT that being said. Look if you guys want to host the one big site full of information. More power to you. I would say though, if you going to do that, you need to give the project managers admin access (at least to their own content). Because don't forget this is their own intellectual property. I mean I've already seem my own images altered and posted on team pages. I don't particularly care for some of the "artist" licenses, but nothing that has really bothered me. However, if you're mirroring the science part, say papers (links would be preferred), project admins should get some oversight. But a big boinc mirror which is what this new John post is sound like is fine. I mean, again to me it seems redundant, but if you want to do it. Go for it. I mean most of this could and is done a big team page, like mine. I never go to project pages, except to post on a forum (which admittedly is rare).
3) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17092) Posted 2 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: I don't think that when David Anderson says he 'knows' project administrators he necessarily means he's met them face to face. Perhaps some projects prefer not to be on the 'recommended' list because they have enough crunchers already and don't want a big new influx. It would still be nice to know whether Berkeley considers that these projects have all the security measures in place. Hmmm, I understand. I think this is a good point. Or perhaps a tag at the bottom of the project page like what exists for w3c compliance. A boinc security check logo? I kind of like that idea.
4) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17088) Posted 2 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: Ok, I will admit that one thing we could do better (myself definitely included) is to 1) included more science talk and 2) perhaps you're suggesting, mo.v, make sure the information on the scientist(s) is available. I think solving both could help. I mean for example I was recently at a conference and talked about the project and I'm going to do a poster at the AAS meeting in St Louis. I plan on posting the papers/abstracts on the web. So one thing (and this has been mention on the mailing lists) listing publications related to the project will address both issues, because it'll show 1) science about and resulting from the project and 2) who the scientist is and what his/her credentials are. So that's a good solution to that problem. That doesn't require unification or me meeting David Anderson (not that I wouldn't mind, but we haven't been to the same conferences :/ ).
5) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17079) Posted 2 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: This sounds similar to a web ring. Funny I was thinking the same thing. I can imagine projects might put these links at the bottom of their first page, but not at the top. Agreed. I would. Not sure I would want that to be at the top of my page. Again, that's getting to web design. But to validate the point, I would prefer it at the bottom. If I included it at all, depends how the final product look. But I definitely would prefer a bar to a unified BOINC.
6) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17058) Posted 2 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: Before a project is granted a slot in the Unified Boinc site. There proposed project and discription of said will be place in the forums for all to read and study. A poll will be taken of ya's and na's and the majority will rule. I mean I know that it would probably be rare for something to get denied. But who's going to decide what project does or doesn't get run. Big lab versus small lab is why I'm here and not on my university's Cluster in the first place. I would really hate to see BOINC being micromanaged. Also, I know the awesome guys at Berkeley have enough to do with out having to be on a BOINC project committee. General public instead? Hmmm... Surely, you know all this is just speculation of what could be done.. not what WILL be done.. its a democracy and it should be polled before the end users before implmenting any changes. Once again.. majority rules. Of course, of course. That's why we're debating it.
7) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17056) Posted 2 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: Couple of comments to keep the debate going: ...that this is not something to sign up for for 'kicks' just to uninstall it in a week or two. I don't know about other project admins out there. But I haven't seen this to be a problem. Yes there are some that drop out, but 1)most people stick around for at least 1 WU and 2)if you are loosing WU crunching because of people signing up, downloading and then detaching, you need to bump up your Result quota. I really do think most dont give a crap about the science!! I only agree slightly. I think most people do care about the science. Yes there's more credit fighting than I care for, but I'd give more credit to the participants. A new core version of BOINC that will NOT let it be uninstalled until the current work unit is completed. Seriously? You really want an application to refuse to uninstall itself. That seems like a whole 'nother can of worms. I understand that the scienctist are not here to 'make web sites'. They are here to oversee the science, right? They dont have the time or man power for it. +1000 A mod to the BOINC core could KILL projects on the client's side along with a message to that client's user explaing exactly why it was killed. Don't like this at all. Hacking aside. Who should decide what project should or shouldn't get killed. Bad idea. That's what teams are for. As for the website comments, are they really that difficult? May be I am a nerd. I just don't see the need for flash on a project's website. Am I trying to attract people based on features and flashy text? I thought you made fun of that earlier. Anyways, don't want to turn this into a web design debate. I guess maybe the main point is uniformity in the web pages' appearance. I understand it's easier to find this if you know where you're looking, but as for me, I like that each project has it's own look.
8) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17053) Posted 2 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: Oh and another thing. BOINC page has done a good job of providing a unified page for future or developing project admins to create and manage their projects. In fact these have seemed to have grown since I came around... (eric meyers is particularly good). So there is an example of there being one spot for admins to go for help. That already exists too.
9) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 17052) Posted 2 May 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: Yes, we need a single web site that has complete info on all BOINC projects. That web site should be an account manager... BOINC is a technology, not a brand. ... Agreed. That's supported by my earlier post. I have my own brand that I want run on my own. The BOINC system is awesome; so I use it. But I don't see the need to migrate my stuff off of my own server that I can ssh into while sitting at my kitchen table (which I'm doing now ;) ) or at my workstation at the university. And I reiterate that I don't see what's missing from BAM! or GR plus a good team (eg Team Picard...). I see that as 2 links I click every day. Between all of us in the team, news gets posted. Thanks to Willy, I can manage all of my hosts and project participation in one spot. I'm just not seeing that anythings missing. Frankly, not to bring down John's suggestion (glad he's so active), I can't see myself sifting through all the threads and fora that would be piled on in one heap if all of the project were in one message board. My real opinion is that the structure should stay the same. There are some things that need to be fixed. That being said this is open source. So if it doesn't get fixed, or as is often the case with me, things get changed, but not checked back in, that's our fault as project managers. But not because there's no unification. I mean I know I've put some patches on the "brats_ops". And I think Kathryn's got some good suggestions (as always). And to be honest, I'm not sure this is what is meant or not, but if project hosting was moved to one place (like WCG?) and I could not host myself, I'd probably bail on the whole thing. Not sure if the suggestion meant for that, but just throwing that out there. That's my 2 cents (again). For what that's worth. PS. not trying to bring John and his ideas down. Glad his thinking about it and throwing himself out there. Just don't like the idea. Sorry.
10) Message boards : Promotion : Complete "BOINC Unification" in one website (Message 16984) Posted 30 Apr 2008 by yomshleeshee Post: Is not the whole point of an open source public project that they are free of this kind of beaurocracy? Are you not missing the entire paradigm here? BOINC is an enabling technology, a tool, not a lifestyle. +1. I personally like the fact that I can run my own project, by myself, how I like it. I don't seem much need to be combined because what would this page list? Stats: there are plenty of stats pages(eg boincstats.com). List projects: again a lot of the sites that list stats by nature list a large number of projects. Allow users to join in one spot: Account managers do that. Also I think one problem is the "unproven" thing. I mean some projects do have problems with errors (my team just diverted resources to crunch one project hard and then it kept producing errors :( ). The problem is sometimes there are legitimate errors the first time an application is released, especially considering all of the platforms out there. So the first release is different. Also, who judges whether it's "proven". I mean I've been running a project without errors for quite some time now and I still have people call my project alpha or I get emails asking if they can help me get started. I do understand, though, that it can be hard keeping all of the boinc world straight and clear. I think a good team is the real solution.

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