Last modified: 23 Nov 2005 4:36:52 UTC

Hello, All,

I posted this on the Einstein Wish List board and was advised to copy it here.

I think that the installer (Windows) should have the checkboxes for "Start on boot" and "Make xxx the default screensaver" unticked by default. We all know that the typical person installing a program a) does not read the EULA, and b) simply clicks "Next", "Next", ..., "Finish". A few of us have spent beaucoup time on these message boards, helping folks with "graphics bug" problems, and most of those problems could be eliminated for new participants simply by reversing the default options, making them opt-in rather than opt-out. Experienced, heavyweight contributors already forgo the eye candy screensaver for more crunching cycles, and the graphics bug problems aggravate, frustrate, and turn off newbies, as well as waste thousands of hours of crunching each day on invalid results.

The "Start on boot (or whatever)" option causes problems for those who don't recognize that their box is permanently crunching, so they get aggravated, etc. by unexpected, seemingly inexplicable slowdowns or lockups.

These problems, and the ill-advised options that cause them, are unnecessary and could be easily eliminated.

Regards,

Michael

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"The arc of history is long, but it bends toward Justice"

I agree with this idea. Users should have to make an affirmative decisions on issues such as this - and not be defaulted into them.

Also, I think the Installer also desparately needs some internal error checking. It seems pretty easy to get a "successfully installed" message, yet haved problems when BOINC is started up. I had a problem when I installed 5.2.7 - some .dll file didn't install properly but, as far as the installer was concerned, all went well. I've seen numerous similar reports, too - including one from a user whose had installed 5.2.? but, as it turned out, still had the v4.45 client in his BOINC folder.

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I agree with this idea. Users should have to make an affirmative decisions on issues such as this - and not be defaulted into them.

Ethically, the more aggressive install options should be made only by an informed, intelligent, conscious choice. The current defaults presume entirely too much - that the host's primary purpose and function is to crunch Boinc, hardly a friendly attitude toward the people upon whose backs the projects ride, and something I think even the projects themselves are loathe to assume.

Overriding by default any setting on someone's computer is wrong, especially start-up settings, something akin to RealPlayer, whose overly aggressive hijacking of file associations and startup setting have earned it a reputation for being amongst the most notorious and insinuating pieces of software. I hardly think that that is the sort of company Boinc would like to keep.

Also, I think the Installer also desparately needs some internal error checking. It seems pretty easy to get a "successfully installed" message, yet haved problems when BOINC is started up. I had a problem when I installed 5.2.7 - some .dll file didn't install properly but, as far as the installer was concerned, all went well. I've seen numerous similar reports, too - including one from a user whose had installed 5.2.? but, as it turned out, still had the v4.45 client in his BOINC folder.

Yes, there has been some confusion and consternation among people trying to update while boinc (manager closed) is running. It's not entirely apparent that the client remains in memory, and so the installation concludes, apparently successfully, with no message to the contrary.

These are the kind of things that send the wrong message to contributors, especially people to whom everything BOINC is foreign, complicated. It's no wonder that the messageboards across the projects are becoming flooded with frustrated, confused, angry, and often insulting posts from the first wave of crunchers transitioning from SetiClassic. We should be going to extreme lengths to make their transition smooth and friendly. It would behoove us to keep in mind that these are experienced, dedicated hard-core long-term crunchers, and not newbies that sign onto a project or three on a whim, download a data chunk, maybe complete a WU or two, and then disappear into the night. We're just now seeing the first of these converts. They will be coming in droves soon, for a few weeks, and then not at all, ever. If they don't have a happy landing here, it won't be them who have missed the boat, it will be BOINC and the projects.

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"The arc of history is long, but it bends toward Justice"

I take a different position on the question of defaulting to starting BOINC on boot. Yes, of course people should make a decision on that and be aware what they are doing. But defaults are also used as a guide to the 'normal' thing to do. Launching BOINC manually every time we start Windows, or whatever, just isn't convenient for users or easy to remember, and the solution to instances where it is a system hog lies elsewhere.

Having BOINC as the default screensaver, on the other hand, is a different matter. It is tiresome in the extreme to have to continually explain to users of climateprediction, for instance, that default setting notwithstanding, it is not a good idea. There is enough confusion around anyway arising from the lingering description of these projects as screensaver applications, when we know they are nothing of the sort.

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Andrew,

I'm not ignoring your post, nor ceding the question of startup option to you. I've been a bit "under the weather" and I'm summoning up my "crusade power" to effectively counter your argument for leaving BOINC in the startup sequence by default. :-)

Respects,

Michael

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"The arc of history is long, but it bends toward Justice"

the only problem with having the default not to "run at startup" is that users may start to miss deadlines if they think that boinc is "doing it's thing" in a "set it and forget it" way

the only problem with having the default not to "run at startup" is that users may start to miss deadlines if they think that boinc is "doing it's thing" in a "set it and forget it" way

Lee, I don't think that's too likely, especially for people new to Boinc, they're not accustomed to anything else but that kind of behavior with their software, if ya want it to run, ya tell it to run. I'm pretty sure the SetiClassic people wouldn't need it to start automatically, either. To the best of my recollection, I always had to consciously start Seti, and managed to do so to the tune of 90+% efficiency. Those SetiClassic folks are time-tested, avid veterans, with no problem at all in remembering to start.

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"The arc of history is long, but it bends toward Justice"

the only problem with having the default not to "run at startup" is that users may start to miss deadlines if they think that boinc is "doing it's thing" in a "set it and forget it" way

Lee, I don't think that's too likely, especially for people new to Boinc, they're not accustomed to anything else but that kind of behavior with their software, if ya want it to run, ya tell it to run. I'm pretty sure the SetiClassic people wouldn't need it to start automatically, either. To the best of my recollection, I always had to consciously start Seti, and managed to do so to the tune of 90+% efficiency. Those SetiClassic folks are time-tested, avid veterans, with no problem at all in remembering to start.

i see your point, maybe it's just me with my bad memory that likes things to be automated ;)

Hello to all

I will contribute with my opinion to install procedure commented on this posts.

On other programs, not BOINC, when I install any update setup ptogram allways shows options selected on last install/update.

I think BOINC may do that, on my case will reduce time on all updates because have BOINC on a different path of proposed (C:\\Program files\\BOINC\\) and also uncheck screensaver option because my BOINC runs always and prefer screen go black.

Also I think many people are home user and what they want are get their BOINC working fine and when an update is ready do the minimom selection and clicks to get it updated.

regards

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I agree with Xavi. It is irritating to have to go through these things each time, and easy to make a mistake. A lot of people do struggle with these things. The installation folder issue is another case where the default is not the optimal choice. Although there is no alternative to offering the system drive in the initial install defaults, once people have been encouraged to install BOINC on a different drive the prompt should be to keep it there.

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I agree with Xavi. It is irritating to have to go through these things each time, and easy to make a mistake. A lot of people do struggle with these things. The installation folder issue is another case where the default is not the optimal choice. Although there is no alternative to offering the system drive in the initial install defaults, once people have been encouraged to install BOINC on a different drive the prompt should be to keep it there.

I agree on that, also - that the BOINC installer should look for and recognize an existing BOINC folder, and default to that location.

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"The arc of history is long, but it bends toward Justice"

I agree with Xavi. It is irritating to have to go through these things each time, and easy to make a mistake. A lot of people do struggle with these things. The installation folder issue is another case where the default is not the optimal choice. Although there is no alternative to offering the system drive in the initial install defaults, once people have been encouraged to install BOINC on a different drive the prompt should be to keep it there.

I agree on that, also - that the BOINC installer should look for and recognize an existing BOINC folder and, if it finds one, default to that location.

(edit) sorry for the double-post, clicked "reply" instead of "edit"

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"The arc of history is long, but it bends toward Justice"