Windows Defender is stopping BOINC at startup

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Profile Jord
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Message 12298 - Posted: 4 Sep 2007, 16:52:05 UTC - in response to Message 12297.  
Last modified: 4 Sep 2007, 16:54:43 UTC

Would it be possible/prudent to start the manager as a service also?

The BOINC Manager is a GUI. It's only there to give you a front-end to manipulate things in the daemon. The daemon can run as a service and runs always, the GUI doesn't need to run always, only when you want to change something or check up on the program.

So it's better to just install BOINC as a service and not allow BOINC Manager to start up when Windows starts up. I've got it installed as a service, without the option that BM starts up when I log on. In the installer this is the option to start BOINC when Windows logs on. A misnomer when installing as a service, as the service starts before the Windows log on! All it does is put a shortcut to BOINC manager in your Startup folder anyway. So uncheck this option when installing BOINC. Or remove the shortcut to BM in your Startup folder.

In my quick launch bar I got a shortcut to BM. Works great. I only click it when I need it. Then with File-Exit I exit BM again and BOINC keeps on chugging along in the background.


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Peter Marsh

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Message 12309 - Posted: 5 Sep 2007, 9:59:30 UTC - in response to Message 12298.  

Ah, I see. I've rebooted my machines and can see in Task Manager that the work units are being processed even though BM isn't running. I hadn't realised that it's the service that does the heavy lifting. Thanks.
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Tom Philippart

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Message 12703 - Posted: 23 Sep 2007, 10:06:44 UTC

to get rid of the problem, the Boinc team has to fill out this form: False positive form

Not every Boinc user is ready to disable UAC.

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sepia-shots

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Message 12901 - Posted: 8 Oct 2007, 9:24:59 UTC - in response to Message 12703.  

to get rid of the problem, the Boinc team has to fill out this form: False positive form

Not every Boinc user is ready to disable UAC.


I agree with this. For me Vista is a necessary evil on one of my machines, I don't trust much about it (unlike my Ubuntu machine) and would prefer not to start turning off the little inbuilt protection it has...

Could one of the Boinc team confirm that they're actioning this form? Then we know we simply have to wait for MS to pull their collective finger out and add the apps into the trusted list.

Cheers

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Nicolas

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Message 12908 - Posted: 8 Oct 2007, 17:01:53 UTC - in response to Message 12901.  

I agree with this. For me Vista is a necessary evil on one of my machines, I don't trust much about it (unlike my Ubuntu machine) and would prefer not to start turning off the little inbuilt protection it has...

Could one of the Boinc team confirm that they're actioning this form? Then we know we simply have to wait for MS to pull their collective finger out and add the apps into the trusted list.

There's lots more than that to make BOINC fully Vista-compatible; and that's definitely being worked on. For example, keeping BOINC executables on Program files and BOINC data on a separate directory; which is how Vista prefers things to be. This will be all in version 6.x.
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Profile Jord
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Message 12909 - Posted: 8 Oct 2007, 19:42:52 UTC

David Anderson is trying to fill in the false positive request form, but has run into a snag. He has no computer with Windows Defender on it that blocks BOINC. I haven't got one either, so we're asking for some help on this one.

Can anyone get the following information and post it here, please?

Name of the software program for which Windows Defender might have mistaken your
program*

Scan results*
Enter the scan results that your software gets from Windows Defender (Beta 2).
To obtain information about scan results in Windows Defender (Beta 2).
1. On the Windows Defender toolbar, click History.
2. In the Programs and actions list, click the scan of your choice.
3. Select the scan results, then right-click to copy them.
4. Right-click the form on this page, and paste the results into it.

Current spyware definitions version*
To ensure that you have the most up-to-date results, obtain the current spyware
definitions.
1. On the Help button, click the arrow, and then click About Microsoft Defender.
2. Locate the Spyware Definitions Version number and then type the number into
the form.
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Profile Atcony

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Message 12916 - Posted: 8 Oct 2007, 22:30:07 UTC

Could it be possible that he might be using kind of firewall, antispy software which is not legitimate? I guess that could be the problem.
Web Design Blog :: Linux Windows Tweaks Blog
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MikeMarsUK

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Message 12919 - Posted: 9 Oct 2007, 7:37:01 UTC - in response to Message 12916.  
Last modified: 9 Oct 2007, 7:37:51 UTC

Could it be possible that he might be using kind of firewall, antispy software which is not legitimate? I guess that could be the problem.


No, the problem is Windows Defender which is a Vista component. A large number of people with Vista have reported the problem. Vista (with all security turned on) is not very compatible with XP applications.

Personally I've moved over to openSUSE rather than go to Vista (previously I was loyal to XP).

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Message 12929 - Posted: 9 Oct 2007, 13:50:55 UTC - in response to Message 12919.  

I spent way too much time with this problem. I have two older XP machines and two new Core 2 Duo Vista machines.

I tried 5.10.20 installed as Service on a Vista machine. I only ever saw one project in Task manager. When I went back to 5.8.16, installed as Single user, I saw two projects.

So, for me it is simple: 5.8.16 on all four of my computers, and, on to something else.

>>RSM

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http://facebook.com/sciencesprings

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Jason

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Message 12949 - Posted: 10 Oct 2007, 5:11:35 UTC

I sent a note to them as well requesting it be evaluated and included. Good luck. I chose between security or a two second annoyance each time I log in.

File Name: boincmgr.exe
Display Name: BOINC client
Description: BOINC Manager for Windows
Publisher: Space Sciences Laboratory
Digitally Signed By: NOT SIGNED
File Type: Application
Link Command: C:\Program Files\BOINC\boincmgr.exe /s
File Path: C:\Program Files\BOINC\boincmgr.exe
File Size: 4141056
File Version: 5.10.20
Date Installed: 8/23/2007 5:53:46 PM
Startup Type: All Users Startup Folder
Location: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\BOINC Manager.lnk
Classification: Not yet classified
Ships with Operating System: No
_____
Description:
This program has potentially unwanted behavior.

Advice:
Permit this detected item only if you trust the program or the software publisher.

Resources:
file:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\BOINC Manager.lnk

file:
C:\Program Files\BOINC\boincmgr.exe

startup:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\BOINC Manager.lnk

Category:
Not Yet Classified
__________
I'm running the latest DAT for Windows Defender (released today):
Windows Defender Version: 1.1.1505.0
Engine Version: 1.1.2908.0
Definition Version: 1.22.3056.0

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Profile Jord
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Message 12978 - Posted: 10 Oct 2007, 14:56:18 UTC
Last modified: 10 Oct 2007, 15:02:45 UTC

Answer from Rom:

Okay, to summarize, Defender isn’t classifying BOINC as malware or spyware. However, it is complaining about BOINC Manager requiring admin priviliges at startup. Therefore it blocks BOINC Manager from automatically starting up and leaves a system tray icon available to launch BOINC Manager.

It does not keep BOINC Manager from running if you launch BOINC Manager manually.


In the mean time, if other people can run Defender and give comparable information on what we asked for in this post, then please do so.
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Nicolas

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Message 13048 - Posted: 13 Oct 2007, 0:36:16 UTC - in response to Message 12949.  

Description: BOINC Manager for Windows
Publisher: Space Sciences Laboratory
Digitally Signed By: NOT SIGNED

The installer is digitally signed by "University of California, Berkeley" using a certificate from Thawte. I thought they signed the individual executables boinc.exe and boincmgr.exe in the same way...
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Eric

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Message 14770 - Posted: 8 Jan 2008, 22:54:57 UTC - in response to Message 12929.  
Last modified: 8 Jan 2008, 23:05:36 UTC

I spent way too much time with this problem. I have two older XP machines and two new Core 2 Duo Vista machines.

I tried 5.10.20 installed as Service on a Vista machine. I only ever saw one project in Task manager. When I went back to 5.8.16, installed as Single user, I saw two projects.

So, for me it is simple: 5.8.16 on all four of my computers, and, on to something else.

>>RSM




1)So Mitrichr: are you stating that 5.8.16 DOES work on Vista machines that have problems with 5.10.20? I (actually a friend...you couldn't pay me to install Vista) have the same Windows Defender problem as on this thread (Vista 32bit) but I believe it is with version 5.10.20

2)So it's now been about 3 months since the last post...someone mentioned a formal fix in 6.0...when will 6.0 be released? I know Vista is a horrible OS but it's been quite a long time to not fix this problem...an update would be nice.

Thanks.

-Eric
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kira13

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Message 15661 - Posted: 4 Mar 2008, 18:51:22 UTC - in response to Message 12978.  

Answer from Rom:

Okay, to summarize, Defender isn’t classifying BOINC as malware or spyware. However, it is complaining about BOINC Manager requiring admin priviliges at startup. Therefore it blocks BOINC Manager from automatically starting up and leaves a system tray icon available to launch BOINC Manager.

It does not keep BOINC Manager from running if you launch BOINC Manager manually.


(Jord)
In the mean time, if other people can run Defender and give comparable information on what we asked for in this post, then please do so.


I could get that info you asked for if I set BOINC back to running at startup, but I don't think it will do any good. Defender is not refusing to start BOINC because it thinks it's malware; it will *always* block any startup program that needs administrative privileges (which is what Rom said above). I just recently read a simple explanation of why this is so, but can't remember where, so I'll attempt to state it as clearly as the source:

If programs that require admin. privileges are allowed to run at boot or logon, they could gain control over the system if they're malware. If Vista puts up a UAC-style prompt for a startup program, then malware could produce a denial-of-service attack by filling startup locations with programs that need admin. privileges.

To get BOINC to run at startup, it needs to not require admin. privileges to run. There is a workaround, though, which I'm using successfully (hence my need to re-allow BOINC to run at startup to get the blocking info): Use Task Scheduler to create a task to launch BOINC. You need to choose "Create Task..." (as opposed to "Create basic task...") from the right-hand side of the window under "Actions". I don't remember the specific steps under "Create a task..." now, but when the task has been created, it should have the following properties:

General tab: "When running the task, use the following user account" should be your user account; "Run only when user is logged on" should be chosen; "Run with highest privileges" should be checked.

Triggers tab: The trigger should be "At log on" and the user account in the details should match the one on the General tab.

Actions tab: The action should be "Start a program" and the details should be "C:Program FilesBOINCboincmgr.exe /s". When setting it up, only "C:Program FilesBOINCboincmgr.exe" goes in the "Program/script" box; "/s" goes in the "Add arguments (optional)" box. If you're copying stuff directly from the shortcut, just ignore the "Start in (optional)" box, even though it's in the shortcut. If you try to have it start in the "C:Program FilesBOINC" folder, which is the default in the shortcut, it won't start because in Vista users don't have permission to write to that folder by default.

Conditions tab: I left these at their defaults. I assume they can be changed to taste.

Settings tab: Same as Conditions tab; I left at default.

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kira13

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Message 15662 - Posted: 4 Mar 2008, 18:57:11 UTC - in response to Message 15661.  

Assume my directories all have backslashes in them. For some reason, they didn't show up, and I didn't catch it in the preview. Sorry about that.

Kira
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PeterB

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Message 16906 - Posted: 27 Apr 2008, 6:13:29 UTC

Have followed KIRA13's instructions to set up the startup of BOINC in the Task Scheduler - works perfectly.

Simple pragmatic solution until the underlying problem is fixed.

Thanks Peter B
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mrbene

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Message 17084 - Posted: 2 May 2008, 18:02:24 UTC

Any status on this?

Similar behavior (a UAC prompt) when configured in single-user mode. Why does BOINC need administrative privs? Is this due to the current storage of data files in the Program Files dir? Is there an option to change this?
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Les Bayliss
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Message 17106 - Posted: 2 May 2008, 20:54:20 UTC

The new version 6 of BOINC soon to be released, will split data and programs.
In the meantime, try installing BOINC "elsewhere" rather than the default location.
At the least in: C:\boinc

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squirreltape

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Message 19518 - Posted: 16 Aug 2008, 16:17:16 UTC

Quote..."Have followed KIRA13's instructions to set up the startup of BOINC in the Task Scheduler - works perfectly.

Simple pragmatic solution until the underlying problem is fixed.

Thanks Peter B"


OMG... I can concur with Peter, this fix of yours Kira13 is spot-on ***YIPEEEEE*** (and showed me an aspect of Vista I wasn't aware of... the Task Scheduler (I've not long upgraded my machine and it came with Vista so I haven't rooted-through the OS yet))

This Windows Defender 'blocking' was really annoying me... has been for about a fortnight now. I have just returned from a week-long break to find my machine has re-started (naturally as it is on 24/7 and auto-updates) and the BOINCManager has been blocked and all my workunits completed and my CPU cycles being wasted (grrrrrrr)... but no-matter now thanks to Kira13... thankyou!!! ;)
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Message boards : BOINC Manager : Windows Defender is stopping BOINC at startup

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