Windows Defender is stopping BOINC at startup

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Aglrond

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Message 10010 - Posted: 6 May 2007, 10:53:32 UTC

Hello, Windows Defender is stopping Boinc Manager from running automatically at startup. I have to click on the icon in taskbar and manually allow the program to run. The Defender has "Software Explorer" where Boinc is not classified as Permitted. How can I make it to allow Boinc to run at startup? Can anyone from Boinc team ask creators of Windows Defender to add Boinc as Permitted application? Thanks in advance.
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Profile KSMarksPsych
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Message 10012 - Posted: 6 May 2007, 11:35:01 UTC

Is it the firewall that's stopping it? Or something else?

What Windows version? Any error messages it gives? Is there a place to add programs as exceptions? How are you installing BOINC (single/shared/service)?

I don't have it and I don't want it, so it's hard for me to give any concrete advice without knowing a few more details.
Kathryn :o)
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mo.v
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Message 10039 - Posted: 7 May 2007, 11:52:59 UTC
Last modified: 7 May 2007, 12:02:02 UTC

My Windows Defender Help menu gives me this information about adding or removing applications from the allowed list:

To add an item to the allowed list
The next time Windows Defender alerts you about the software, on the Action menu in the Alert dialog box, click Always Allow.
To remove an item from the allowed list
Open Windows Defender by clicking Start, clicking Programs, and then clicking Windows Defender.
Click Tools, and then click Allowed items.
Select the item that you want to monitor again, and then click Remove From List.


If boinc doesn't appear in your Allowed list, do you get a pop-up alert from Windows Defender at startup? My Windows Defender Allowed list contains nothing at all(!), but boinc runs fine and I never get a pop-up alert about it.

There doesn't seem to be any way to add an allowed application manually. I think you can only do this when/if the pop-up window appears.

Aglrond, when you say 'I have to click on the icon in taskbar and manually allow the program to run' what do you have to do? If you can double-click the boinc icon and the boinc manager opens up, maybe WinDefender hasn't really blocked it?

Before I turn off the computer, I always suspend my workunits in the Activity menu and then exit from boinc. So when I start the computer again, I have to manually allow my workunits to run again.

My Symantec firewall, on the other hand, contains a long list of allowed programmes including boinc.

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Profile Jord
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Message 10191 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 9:25:13 UTC
Last modified: 11 May 2007, 9:26:01 UTC

Reposting for Phil Stilliard:

An anti-spyware program has disabled the BOINC manager on my PC. Work requested has not been given to me. I have lost my login details. Why can't you detect who I am from the cookie? There is only one PHIL STILLIARD, my email address is X, Y or Z, user name is probably COMPUTAB. can you help please? My computer is running very slowly, probably because BOINC is looking for a connection.

Phil, in case the email didn't get through, NEVER post your email addresses on these open forums, unless you type them something like "my name at address dot extension". And even then, just don't. There are a lot of SPAM bots crawling these forums just looking for easy morsels as that. So please, don't!
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Profile Jord
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Message 10192 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 9:32:22 UTC - in response to Message 10191.  

An anti-spyware program has disabled the BOINC manager on my PC. Work requested has not been given to me. I have lost my login details. Why can't you detect who I am from the cookie? There is only one PHIL STILLIARD, my email address is X, Y or Z, user name is probably COMPUTAB. can you help please? My computer is running very slowly, probably because BOINC is looking for a connection.

As to answering the actual question...

BOINC doesn't use cookies. Your log in details (authenticator key) can always be found in the file called account_*.xml, where * stands for the project URL you are attached to. Example given: account_abcathome.com.xml for ABC@Home.

If your anti-spyware program has disabled Boinc Manager (or Boinc.exe for that matter), you need to allow it in that program as being a good (trusted) program. Which Anti-Spyware program is it? (I ask as neither Spybot Search & Destroy, nor Ad-Aware SE Personal ever tried to do this to my BOINC parts).
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Colin Porter

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Message 10203 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 17:42:01 UTC - in response to Message 10010.  

Hello, Windows Defender is stopping Boinc Manager from running automatically at startup.


I too am having problems with this - BUT it has only occurred since upgrading to 5.9.10. What are you running?

For those not in the know, Defender comes as part of VISTA.
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Profile Jord
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Message 10204 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 18:05:13 UTC - in response to Message 10010.  
Last modified: 11 May 2007, 18:22:11 UTC

I had my weekly chat with Rom Walton. According to him, there is no work around.
The problem is that Boinc Manager needs administrative permission to start up. Windows Defender stops that as automated admin permission isn't given to anything.

So the only work around is to start up Boinc Manager by hand.
Or install BOINC as a service and don't check the option "Start BOINC at Windows startup". That is a misnomer in this case, as the BOINC service will start before Windows logon. That option just sits there to start up Boinc Manager.
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Colin Porter

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Message 10208 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 20:59:50 UTC - in response to Message 10204.  

I had my weekly chat with Rom Walton. According to him, there is no work around.
The problem is that Boinc Manager needs administrative permission to start up. Windows Defender stops that as automated admin permission isn't given to anything.

So the only work around is to start up Boinc Manager by hand.
Or install BOINC as a service and don't check the option "Start BOINC at Windows startup". That is a misnomer in this case, as the BOINC service will start before Windows logon. That option just sits there to start up Boinc Manager.


Prior to installing 5.9.10 BOINC manager started as it always had on XP totally automatically. I've only had vista a couple of weeks so am still finding my way around.

I am still trying to find a way to give it admin permissions and will post any way I find - but if ROM says no work around then i THINK i'm p£$%^ng in the wind.
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Profile Jord
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Message 10209 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 21:34:29 UTC - in response to Message 10208.  

On XP it will start automatically. On Vista it won't.
And it's more of a Vista problem, than that of a possible WD problem. Then again... isn't WD integrated into Vista? Or can you disable it or uninstall it so it won't stop you from doing things you always deemed fine, but Microsoft just doesn't want you to do anymore? ;-)
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Aaron Finney

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Message 10220 - Posted: 13 May 2007, 8:48:55 UTC

Ageless - To clarify, I have this problem also, and I did not have this problem prior to upgrading to 5.9.10.

This is definately a problem with 5.9.xx, as it worked without making Windows Defender pop up before 5.9.xx.

This is my opinion - Windows Defender is by default now telling users that BOINC Manager is potentially bad for you. I know better, YOU know better, most of us here know better - The problem is, that there is going to be some unsuspecting chap who installs this and sees this message and decides that this BOINC stuff isn't all that great, and he doesn't have the time or the desire to find out more about it.

BOINC Manager should not be getting stopped by Windows Defender. Period. Fix this before an official release.
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Profile William
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Message 10222 - Posted: 13 May 2007, 12:57:35 UTC

I was sent a link to this thread because I am running Boinc with Defender both in Vista. I have recently updated Boinc to 5.8.16 and Boinc still auto starts just fine in Vista. I have UAC disabled,run as admin and have Boinc set as single with launch at boot enabled.
As far as Vista as an OS, I think its faster and more stable than XP, runs all my peripherals just fine, just had to find some of the new drivers but that was 2 mos ago and I think most mfg. have them now. I recommend doing an upgrade (ya ya ya upgrade)because Vista only stores your XP settings, wipes all the XP files then reinstalls Vista, sets up using your XP settings and everything should work ok.
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Colin Porter

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Message 10247 - Posted: 14 May 2007, 14:15:47 UTC - in response to Message 10222.  

Boinc still auto starts just fine in Vista. I have UAC disabled,run as admin and have Boinc set as single with launch at boot enabled.


I can now confirm that it is in fact User Account Control that is causing the issue.

BOINC will start automatically with UAC switched off.
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Aaron Finney

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Message 10253 - Posted: 14 May 2007, 18:31:15 UTC - in response to Message 10222.  
Last modified: 14 May 2007, 18:38:11 UTC

I was sent a link to this thread because I am running Boinc with Defender both in Vista. I have recently updated Boinc to 5.8.16 and Boinc still auto starts just fine in Vista. I have UAC disabled,run as admin and have Boinc set as single with launch at boot enabled.
As far as Vista as an OS, I think its faster and more stable than XP, runs all my peripherals just fine, just had to find some of the new drivers but that was 2 mos ago and I think most mfg. have them now. I recommend doing an upgrade (ya ya ya upgrade)because Vista only stores your XP settings, wipes all the XP files then reinstalls Vista, sets up using your XP settings and everything should work ok.


Yes, as I noted earlier, I did not experience this problem until I migrated to 5.9.10, but thank you for the continued affirmation that this problem doesn't exist in 5.8.16. Have you tried version 5.9.10 as this is the version of client this problem seems to exist in for me?

I won't be able to get to my Vista machine until later tonight, but I will have to look into what 'User account control' really means. If I am correct in my current understanding of the term, Perhaps we will have to have the BOINC Manager installed into the all users folder, rather than the current user folder to avert this problem for users who have the default setting of having UAC on?

Also - are you running a service install? Is it 32-bit or 64-bit Vista?
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Profile William
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Message 10258 - Posted: 15 May 2007, 5:24:52 UTC - in response to Message 10253.  

I was sent a link to this thread because I am running Boinc with Defender both in Vista. I have recently updated Boinc to 5.8.16 and Boinc still auto starts just fine in Vista. I have UAC disabled,run as admin and have Boinc set as single with launch at boot enabled.
As far as Vista as an OS, I think its faster and more stable than XP, runs all my peripherals just fine, just had to find some of the new drivers but that was 2 mos ago and I think most mfg. have them now. I recommend doing an upgrade (ya ya ya upgrade)because Vista only stores your XP settings, wipes all the XP files then reinstalls Vista, sets up using your XP settings and everything should work ok.


Yes, as I noted earlier, I did not experience this problem until I migrated to 5.9.10, but thank you for the continued affirmation that this problem doesn't exist in 5.8.16. Have you tried version 5.9.10 as this is the version of client this problem seems to exist in for me?

I won't be able to get to my Vista machine until later tonight, but I will have to look into what 'User account control' really means. If I am correct in my current understanding of the term, Perhaps we will have to have the BOINC Manager installed into the all users folder, rather than the current user folder to avert this problem for users who have the default setting of having UAC on?

Also - are you running a service install? Is it 32-bit or 64-bit Vista?


The 5.8.16 is the latest STABLE release for windows 32bit so thats what I stay with as the cpdn models are too large to risk in beta testing.

I have Boinc set as single with launch at boot enabled. I don't run service anymore as I want the graphics so I can chk timesteps in cpdn.
I don't run UAC because I know what I'm doing and don't want MS making incorrect decisions on MY setup.
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Colin Porter

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Message 10270 - Posted: 15 May 2007, 19:42:54 UTC - in response to Message 10253.  



Yes, as I noted earlier, I did not experience this problem until I migrated to 5.9.10, but thank you for the continued affirmation that this problem doesn't exist in 5.8.16. Have you tried version 5.9.10 as this is the version of client this problem seems to exist in for me?

I won't be able to get to my Vista machine until later tonight, but I will have to look into what 'User account control' really means. If I am correct in my current understanding of the term, Perhaps we will have to have the BOINC Manager installed into the all users folder, rather than the current user folder to avert this problem for users who have the default setting of having UAC on?



I confirmed this as a UAC issue because I tried reverting from 5.9.10 to 5.8.16, still had the issue. (It was after installing 5.9.10 that I first noticed it - probably a bit of a coincidence I now believe.This was even after completely deleting all Boinc folders from the comp. I then did some serious searching through microsoft.

In my case I was sure that I had already switched off UAC - but somehow Vista seemed to have switched it on again, possibly after a Vista update.

I have since reinstalled 5.9.10 and with UAC disabled BOINC starts right up at boot up.

I have also tried installing boinc both as a single user and multi user and get the same symptoms.

Until Boinc is accepted as a legitimate program by Microsoft and the appropriate code added via a Vista update I do not see anyway around this. Except of course by ditching Vista.

Anyone got any other suggestions?
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Thyme Lawn

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Message 10277 - Posted: 16 May 2007, 8:07:13 UTC - in response to Message 10270.  

Anyone got any other suggestions?

Don't install BOINC to the default directory.

When prompted during installation change the install directory to something that doesn't sit under C:\Program Files
"The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world that it leaves to its children." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Profile William
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Message 10282 - Posted: 16 May 2007, 16:18:02 UTC - in response to Message 10277.  
Last modified: 16 May 2007, 16:27:45 UTC

Anyone got any other suggestions?

Don't install BOINC to the default directory.

When prompted during installation change the install directory to something that doesn't sit under C:Program Files


Sorry to say this Thyme but my boinc folder IS under C:/program files (one of the few) and I switched on UAC and checked if it started auto and it did, I wonder if the means of upgrading has anything to do with the startup permissions as I did an upgrade from XP Pro to Vista business (only way with my action pack) VS a clean reinstall ?

My sec log:

credentials
User Account Control: Detect application installations and prompt for elevation Enabled
User Account Control: Only elevate executables that are signed and validated Disabled
User Account Control: Only elevate UIAccess applications that are installed in secure locations Enabled
User Account Control: Run all administrators in Admin Approval Mode Disabled
User Account Control: Switch to the secure desktop when prompting for elevation Enabled
User Account Control: Virtualize file and registry write failures to per-user locations Enabled
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Profile KSMarksPsych
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Message 10287 - Posted: 16 May 2007, 20:22:31 UTC

As soon as Rom releases the new Windows compile, I'll check it out (should be later today).

I bought my new laptop yesterday and haven't done any tweaking to UAC (unless you count yelling at it because it's a pain) or the install in general.
Kathryn :o)
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Profile William
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Message 10309 - Posted: 17 May 2007, 21:59:02 UTC - in response to Message 10287.  

As soon as Rom releases the new Windows compile, I'll check it out (should be later today).

I bought my new laptop yesterday and haven't done any tweaking to UAC (unless you count yelling at it because it's a pain) or the install in general.


^^^ :)
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Patrick_Dickey

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Message 12297 - Posted: 4 Sep 2007, 16:33:11 UTC - in response to Message 10270.  
Last modified: 4 Sep 2007, 16:35:16 UTC



I confirmed this as a UAC issue because I tried reverting from 5.9.10 to 5.8.16, still had the issue. (It was after installing 5.9.10 that I first noticed it - probably a bit of a coincidence I now believe.This was even after completely deleting all Boinc folders from the comp. I then did some serious searching through microsoft.

In my case I was sure that I had already switched off UAC - but somehow Vista seemed to have switched it on again, possibly after a Vista update.

I have since reinstalled 5.9.10 and with UAC disabled BOINC starts right up at boot up.

I have also tried installing boinc both as a single user and multi user and get the same symptoms.

Until Boinc is accepted as a legitimate program by Microsoft and the appropriate code added via a Vista update I do not see anyway around this. Except of course by ditching Vista.

Anyone got any other suggestions?


Would it be possible/prudent to start the manager as a service also? The issue is this. Since BOINC Manager requires Administrative power, you will always have to start it by hand. UAC is designed to stop programs from auto-starting with Administrative powers.

To Quote Windows Help and Support (Windows Vista Ultimate):


Run or remove blocked startup programs

User Account Control prevents programs that require permission or an administrator password from running automatically when Windows starts. If a program is blocked, you'll see a message in the notification area that says some startup programs need permission to run. You can run a blocked program, remove blocked programs from startup, or ignore the notification.

To run a blocked program
Right-click the Blocked startup programs icon in the notification area.

Click Run blocked program, and then click the name of the program you want to run. If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation.

Note
You'll need to repeat these steps each time you want to run the program after starting Windows.



The Note at the bottom explains everything.. You have to do this every time, if the program requires Administrative powers.

I'm not a windows developer, but if the program was started as a service, could it be designed to show up in the user's system tray (so they can open and manage their projects), and further, could it be designed to only show up in certain user's trays (ex Administrators only or specific users)?

Have a wonderful week:-)
Patrick.


***** Edited to fix the original quote
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Message boards : BOINC Manager : Windows Defender is stopping BOINC at startup

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