Boinc refuses to get new work from Primegrid, it says "don't need".

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Peter Hucker of the Scottish B...
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Message 103970 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 10:46:19 UTC
Last modified: 16 Apr 2021, 10:47:26 UTC

Suddenly one of my machines won't get Primegrid GPU work. It's the only project with GPU tasks available that isn't set to "no new work". I've tried manually updating. The machine has two graphics cards, and one task currently running, and none queued. I've told it the tasks use 0.5 GPUs in app config, so it needs 4. Its (badly) estimated remaining time is 9 days (it will actually take about 3), with a deadline of 14.5 days, and it's not in panic mode (doesn't say "running high priority"). I've tried restarting Boinc. I get this (let me know if some other debug options would give the answer):

Ryzen

3124	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	update requested by user	
3125	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	[sched_op] sched RPC pending: Requested by user	
3126	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	[sched_op] Starting scheduler request	
3127	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.	
3128	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	Not requesting tasks: don't need (CPU: ; AMD/ATI GPU: )	
3129	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	[sched_op] CPU work request: 0.00 seconds; 0.00 devices	
3130	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	[sched_op] AMD/ATI GPU work request: 0.00 seconds; 0.00 devices	
3131	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	Scheduler request completed	
3132	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	[sched_op] Server version 713	
3133	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	Project requested delay of 7 seconds	
3134	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	[sched_op] Deferring communication for 00:00:07	
3135	PrimeGrid	16-04-2021 11:38 AM	[sched_op] Reason: requested by project	
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish B...
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Message 103971 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 10:59:25 UTC - in response to Message 103970.  

Update. The problem is I had excluded two of the many subprojects of Primegrid from one of the cards (the slower one) in cc config. Because the one I had running was one of those, presumably it didn't want to get more incase they were also unsuitable for the other card.

But.... The card that was permitted to run any only had one task running, and was set to run two at once, so why didn't it get another?
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Harri Liljeroos

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Message 103978 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 21:03:33 UTC

Newer versions of Boinc managers don't show about the panic mode anymore. It was considered unsettling to the users. Boinc will go to panic mode if required but just doesn't show it.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish B...
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Message 103993 - Posted: 17 Apr 2021, 17:07:46 UTC - in response to Message 103978.  
Last modified: 17 Apr 2021, 17:08:34 UTC

Newer versions of Boinc managers don't show about the panic mode anymore. It was considered unsettling to the users. Boinc will go to panic mode if required but just doesn't show it.
I use Boinctasks, not Boinc Manager. I don't know how anyone can use that poor quality simple pile of rubbish. In Boinctasks, I see "running" or "running high priority" under the status column. Why would that scare people? I guess they'd also remove the petrol guage from a car in case it makes people nervous. The strange thing is, it only shows it on some of the tasks, and not the ones it should.
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Profile Joseph Stateson
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Message 103996 - Posted: 17 Apr 2021, 18:00:22 UTC - in response to Message 103993.  

Newer versions of Boinc managers don't show about the panic mode anymore. It was considered unsettling to the users. Boinc will go to panic mode if required but just doesn't show it.
I use Boinctasks, not Boinc Manager. I don't know how anyone can use that poor quality simple pile of rubbish. In Boinctasks, I see "running" or "running high priority" under the status column. Why would that scare people? I guess they'd also remove the petrol guage from a car in case it makes people nervous. The strange thing is, it only shows it on some of the tasks, and not the ones it should.


Select the tasks and look under properties for anything suspicious. BT has a message dialog box that can get long and many messages are ignorable. Filter on primegrid and look for anything suspicious. I once found a message in that was too long and when I stretched the box out I found a warning about not enough virtual memory that had been hidden.

I have not run primegrid for years and in addition they are not whitelisted in gridcoin the last time I looked. I do recall trying more than one tasks and did not see an improvement worth the effort. However, it is possible for other projects to use the "other half" of the GPU if that project is allowed "halves". It gets more mplicated when set to 0.2 and one gets 3 of one type and the project using 0.5 cannot run and the project set to 0.2 is out of work. But that fixes itself when one of the three finishes.

Reading your comment about petrol reminds me of the MGB I bought new in 1970. The handbook recommended not checking the petrol with a naked torch. I always though that as a reflection on the manufacture not updating the manual but it could have applied to the drivers across the pond.
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Harri Liljeroos

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Message 104000 - Posted: 17 Apr 2021, 18:13:42 UTC - in response to Message 103993.  

Newer versions of Boinc managers don't show about the panic mode anymore. It was considered unsettling to the users. Boinc will go to panic mode if required but just doesn't show it.
I use Boinctasks, not Boinc Manager. I don't know how anyone can use that poor quality simple pile of rubbish. In Boinctasks, I see "running" or "running high priority" under the status column. Why would that scare people? I guess they'd also remove the petrol guage from a car in case it makes people nervous. The strange thing is, it only shows it on some of the tasks, and not the ones it should.

I use BoincTasks as well so I totally agree with you. I have also wondered why some tasks show it and some don't. Sometimes Boinc works in a mysterious way...
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish B...
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Message 104011 - Posted: 18 Apr 2021, 17:10:54 UTC - in response to Message 103996.  

However, it is possible for other projects to use the "other half" of the GPU if that project is allowed "halves". It gets more complicated when set to 0.2 and one gets 3 of one type and the project using 0.5 cannot run and the project set to 0.2 is out of work. But that fixes itself when one of the three finishes.
I've always wondered about cards like my 280X which are good at double precision, whether it could run a Milkyway and an Einstein at once, both at full speed, since one is single and one double. I think I tried it once and it can't, something is shared. Maybe it's actually the same bit of GPU in a different mode for double precision?

Reading your comment about petrol reminds me of the MGB I bought new in 1970. The handbook recommended not checking the petrol with a naked torch. I always though that as a reflection on the manufacture not updating the manual but it could have applied to the drivers across the pond.
Er.... if they meant a UK torch, as in a lightbulb, then that's not dangerous. If they meant a torch as in the original thing with the big flame from Egyptian times, I could see a problem there. Or maybe they put the words in the wrong order and you shouldn't check the petrol naked with a torch as your neighbour might see.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish B...
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Message 104012 - Posted: 18 Apr 2021, 17:11:22 UTC - in response to Message 104000.  

Newer versions of Boinc managers don't show about the panic mode anymore. It was considered unsettling to the users. Boinc will go to panic mode if required but just doesn't show it.
I use Boinctasks, not Boinc Manager. I don't know how anyone can use that poor quality simple pile of rubbish. In Boinctasks, I see "running" or "running high priority" under the status column. Why would that scare people? I guess they'd also remove the petrol guage from a car in case it makes people nervous. The strange thing is, it only shows it on some of the tasks, and not the ones it should.

I use BoincTasks as well so I totally agree with you. I have also wondered why some tasks show it and some don't. Sometimes Boinc works in a mysterious way...
That's a polite way of saying shoddy programming.
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Les Bayliss
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Message 104013 - Posted: 18 Apr 2021, 20:00:55 UTC - in response to Message 104012.  

That's a polite way of saying shoddy programming.

No it's not.

It's another way of saying "very complex programming."
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish B...
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Message 104018 - Posted: 19 Apr 2021, 18:05:19 UTC - in response to Message 104013.  

That's a polite way of saying shoddy programming.
No it's not.

It's another way of saying "very complex programming."
The actual tasks are complex. Boinc is just a simple scheduler.
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Profile Dave
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Message 104022 - Posted: 20 Apr 2021, 6:30:37 UTC - in response to Message 104018.  

The actual tasks are complex. Boinc is just a simple scheduler.


If it were that simple, this and many other problems would have been resolved years ago. And the tasks are not necessarily all that complex. Despite not having done any programming worth mentioning since the days of ALGOL, I would not have great difficulty writing a program to find prime numbers.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish B...
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Message 104028 - Posted: 20 Apr 2021, 17:55:07 UTC - in response to Message 104022.  
Last modified: 20 Apr 2021, 17:57:34 UTC

The actual tasks are complex. Boinc is just a simple scheduler.
If it were that simple, this and many other problems would have been resolved years ago.
You don't need to be a programmer to see that Boinc doesn't really have to do much. Just monitor the times of things and what can run when. It's amazing how much it gets totally wrong. And not just bugs, but a basic lack of common sense as to which tasks to run when. For example, it thinks task A has 4 hours left to complete, and it knows that's an estimate. So when should it panic and start it? 4 hours before the deadline? Because that's what I see happening! And even worse if you have multi-core tasks running at the same time, it now runs more than the number of cores you have, making that estimate completely wrong.

And the tasks are not necessarily all that complex. Despite not having done any programming worth mentioning since the days of ALGOL, I would not have great difficulty writing a program to find prime numbers.
I would imagine the Biology stuff is a little more complicated.

And you should have a word with Primegrid seen as they seem incapable of making the time estimate sensible. I've got a task running on my GPU that I know will take 5 days. The estimate? 147 days! Even when it's 50% done and took 2.5 days to get that far, it still doesn't correct the mistake and says 73 days to go! Even after it's done several of them, it still says 147 days for the next one!
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Message 104036 - Posted: 21 Apr 2021, 6:06:14 UTC

You don't need to be a programmer to see that Boinc doesn't really have to do much.


Perhaps you do need to be a programmer to appreciate the complexities of what BOINC does?
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish B...
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Message 104047 - Posted: 21 Apr 2021, 17:38:59 UTC - in response to Message 104036.  

You don't need to be a programmer to see that Boinc doesn't really have to do much.
Perhaps you do need to be a programmer to appreciate the complexities of what BOINC does?
I couldn't design a bicycle, but I know it's simpler than a car. And it's less the complexities of Boinc and more making sensible decisions when writing it. I just told Boinc to give one project priority 10 and another 5, so I expect to see that happen now, not gradually over a month's time! Say you were a foreman and told your workers to concentrate mainly on job C, would you expect the workers to average out your requests over the last month? Or would you expect them to do what you said right now?
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Message boards : Questions and problems : Boinc refuses to get new work from Primegrid, it says "don't need".

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