bad news everyone, results of the BOINC Collatz project are invalid

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poppinfresh99

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Message 102842 - Posted: 7 Feb 2021, 18:07:49 UTC

Bad news everyone, results of the BOINC Collatz project are invalid. The project has the goal of finding the high steps to reduce a number to 1. However, you may not use a sieve when doing this. See the kernel code from this project below, and you'll see that a sieve is used.

Please see this paper for a valid algorithm.
http://www.ijnc.org/index.php/ijnc/article/download/135/144
See "Algorithm 2".

All results of this BOINC Collatz project regarding high steps are invalid.

In light of this, there are algorithms that don't find high steps to reduce a number to 1 that are 78 times faster for CPU (7700% faster) and 36 times faster on GPU (3500% faster), so this BOINC project performs 1% as fast on CPU and 3% as fast on GPU as it should. This is assuming that this BOINC project's code is valid in any form, and I have many serious concerns from the small amount of code that I can actually see.

Let's look at a 2^2 sieve for a very simple example of what this project is doing wrong. This sieve will only run 25% of the numbers...
3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, ...

start number...
1: 0 steps
2: 1 step
3: 7 steps
4: 2 steps
5: 5 steps
6: 8 steps
...

But notice that 8 steps occurs at 6, which would never be tested with this sieve. I suppose the 1 step of number 2 isn't going to be found either!

You can easily confirm for yourself that this project is still invalid by looking at...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/high_steppers.php
It only shows numbers of pattern 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, ...

The following are also all very worrisome, especially considering that, in this project, tasks are not validated by another device...
(1) most devices at this project do not have ECC RAM
(2) maxStep = 2^28-1, which on the many GPUs that have a watchdog timer, may not detect the infinite cycles that would disprove the Collatz conjecture. This would especially be a problem if global_work_size is large!
(3) AMD and Intel GPUs are known to commonly make arithmetic errors for the 64-bit integers (ulong) used in the code

It is important that EVERY number be tested, and I have zero confidence that this is true.

I am even more worried because Jon Sonntag, the project admin, refuses to release *any* amount of source code for review. I have had to struggle to figure out the above! Who knows what other errors exist?!

Dare I mention that, as many of us know, the project gives a HUGE amount of BOINC credit! Dare I mention the lack of organized authoritative results? I have emailed BOINC to have them consider removing this project from their published list. Science United uses that list to assign work. BOINC says they are unable to determine if the code is invalid.

Jon Sonntag deleted my forum posts at his project, so I am posting at these BOINC forums. I would hate for any scientist to take the results of his project seriously.

The lesson to be learned here is to listen to the scientists and to the experts, and don't follow people who are all show and no substance. Just because Jon Sonntag knows more than you about something doesn't mean that he is trained in thinking scientifically.

I have very fast and valid code here...
https://www.bradleyknockel.com/collatz/
I provide many suggestions for getting this code to work with something like BOINC.
My code is open for review, so let me know if you find any improvements! Please let me know if you want to use the code! No one at the BOINC Collatz project understands the science behind the project, so, if you do, please confirm my conclusions!

Jon Sonntag's invalid kernel code...
//NOTICE: This kernel must define LUTSTEP and SIEVESTEP 
//Table: power of 3 
__constant uint power3[21] =  
	{1u,3u,9u,27u,81u,243u,729u,2187u,6561u,19683u, 
	59049u,177147u,531441u,1594323u,4782969u,14348907u,43046721u,129140163u,387420489u,1162261467u, 
	3486784401u 
}; 
inline uint2 mul64(const uint a, const uint b){ 
	return (uint2)(a*b, mul_hi(a,b)); 
}  
__kernel void kernelSteps ( 
   __global uint4 *results, //Result: s0:max step; s1:low offset; s2:high offset; s3:total steps. Size = global work size 
   __global const uint *sieve, //Numbers needed to compute for every 2^(SIEVESTEP) numbers. size = global work size 
   __global const uint2 *table, //look-up table for jumping in collatz algorithm. Size = 2^(LUTSTEP) 
   __global const uint *delay, //Collatz delays for numbers under 2^(LUTSTEP),. Size = 2^(LUTSTEP) 
   const ulong2 start, //Starting value (128-bit), must be multiple of 2^(SIEVESTEP) 
   const uint kNo //'kernel set' number, kNo = 1 means offset = 1* 2^(SIEVESTEP). kNo = 0 means clear the result 
) 
{ 
   const uint gid = get_global_id(0); 
   const uint bitDiff = 32 - LUTSTEP, tableSizeMinusOne = (1u << LUTSTEP) - 1; 
   const uint maxStep = 0xfffffff; //maximum step allowed by this kernel (2^28-1) 
   uint contCarry = 1u, stepCount = 0, p3, overflow; //contCarry : if loop should continue and hold carry bits, stepCount : count collatz Delay, p3 : store power3[] 
   const ulong totalOffset = (ulong)sieve[gid] + ((ulong)kNo * (ulong)(SIEVESIZE)); 
   ulong2 uval = (ulong2)(start.s0 + totalOffset, start.s1); 
   uval.s1 += (uval.s0 < totalOffset); 
   uint2 lut, mulResult, val_h; //lut : table item. mulResult : mul64() result, val_h : val and val_h combined to be a 196-bit integer
	uint4 val = (uint4)((uint)uval.s0,(uint)(uval.s0>>32), (uint)uval.s1, (uint)(uval.s1>>32)); 
	val_h = (uint2)(0u, 0u ); 
	//Loop 
	while(contCarry){ 
		//get look-up table item 
		lut = table[val.s0 & tableSizeMinusOne]; 
		p3 = power3[lut.s0]; 
		//Do n = (n>>LUTSTEP)*a + b 
		//bit 0-31 
		mulResult = mul64((val.s0 >> LUTSTEP) + (val.s1 << bitDiff), p3); //Multiply 'a' 
		val.s0 = mulResult.s0 + lut.s1; //Add 'b' 
		contCarry = mulResult.s1 + (val.s0 < mulResult.s0); //count carry bits 
		//bit 32-63 
		mulResult = mul64((val.s1 >> LUTSTEP) + (val.s2 << bitDiff), p3); 
		val.s1 = mulResult.s0 + contCarry; 
		contCarry = mulResult.s1 + (val.s1 < mulResult.s0); 
		//bit 64-95 
		mulResult = mul64((val.s2 >> LUTSTEP) + (val.s3 << bitDiff), p3); 
		val.s2 = mulResult.s0 + contCarry; 
		contCarry = mulResult.s1 + (val.s2 < mulResult.s0); 
		//bit 96-127 
		mulResult = mul64((val.s3 >> LUTSTEP) + (val_h.s0 << bitDiff), p3); 
		val.s3 = mulResult.s0 + contCarry; 
		contCarry = mulResult.s1 + (val.s3 < mulResult.s0); 
		//bit 128-159 
		mulResult = mul64((val_h.s0 >> LUTSTEP) + (val_h.s1 << bitDiff), p3); 
		val_h.s0 = mulResult.s0 + contCarry; 
		contCarry = mulResult.s1 + (val_h.s0 < mulResult.s0); 
		//bit 160-191 and overflow detection 
		mulResult = mul64((val_h.s1 >> LUTSTEP), p3); 
		val_h.s1 = mulResult.s0 + contCarry; 
		overflow = mulResult.s1 + (val_h.s1 < mulResult.s0); 
		stepCount += (lut.s0 + LUTSTEP); //add step 
		//if val < tableSize or overflow or step >= maxStep, exit loop (set contCarry to 0), else set it to 1 
		contCarry = ((val.s0 > tableSizeMinusOne) | (val.s1 | val.s2 | val.s3 | val_h.s0 | val_h.s1)) && (!(overflow | (stepCount >= maxStep)));  
	} 
	//If overflow is true, stepCount = maxStep; otherwise, stepCount += delay[val.s0&(tableSize-1)], contCarry is use as a temporary int 
	contCarry = stepCount + delay[val.s0 & tableSizeMinusOne]; 
	stepCount = select(contCarry, maxStep, overflow); 
	//Use val as the result to save space as it's no longer used 
	val = results[gid]; 
   contCarry = (stepCount > val.s0) | (kNo == 0) | ((stepCount == val.s0) && (totalOffset < ((ulong)val.s1 + ((ulong)val.s2<<32)))); 
   val.s0 = select(val.s0,stepCount,contCarry); 
   val.s1 = select(val.s1, (uint)totalOffset, contCarry); 
   val.s2 = select(val.s2, (uint)(totalOffset>>32), contCarry); 
   contCarry = (kNo == 0); 
   val.s3 = select(val.s3 + stepCount, stepCount, contCarry); 
	//save result to output array 
	results[gid] = val; 
}  //end of kernel 
__kernel void kernelReduce(__global uint4 *results, __global uint4 *out, __local uint4 *temp) 
{ 
    uint gid = get_global_id(0); 
    uint gsz = get_global_size(0); 
    uint lid = get_local_id(0); 
    uint lsz = get_local_size(0); 
    uint4 a = results[gid]; 
    uint4 b = results[gid + gsz]; 
    ulong ua, ub; 
    ua = (ulong)a.s1 + ((ulong)a.s2<<32); 
    ub = (ulong)b.s1 + ((ulong)b.s2<<32); 
    uint x = (a.s0 > b.s0) || ((a.s0 == b.s0) && (ua < ub)) ; 
    temp[lid].s0 = select(b.s0,a.s0,x); 
    temp[lid].s1 = select(b.s1,a.s1,x); 
    temp[lid].s2 = select(b.s2,a.s2,x); 
    temp[lid].s3 = a.s3 + b.s3; 
    barrier(CLK_LOCAL_MEM_FENCE); 
    for(uint stride=lsz/2;stride>1;stride>>=1) 
    { 
        if (lid < stride) 
        { 
            a = temp[lid]; 
            b = temp[lid + stride]; 
            ua = (ulong)a.s1 + ((ulong)a.s2<<32); 
            ub = (ulong)b.s1 + ((ulong)b.s2<<32); 
            x = (a.s0 > b.s0) || ((a.s0 == b.s0) && (ua < ub)) ; 
            temp[lid].s0 = select(b.s0,a.s0,x); 
            temp[lid].s1 = select(b.s1,a.s1,x); 
            temp[lid].s2 = select(b.s2,a.s2,x); 
            temp[lid].s3 = a.s3 + b.s3; 
        } 
        barrier(CLK_LOCAL_MEM_FENCE); 
    } 
    if (lid == 0)
    { 
        //x = temp[0].s0 >= temp[1].s0; 
        ua = (ulong)temp[0].s1 + ((ulong)temp[0].s2<<32); 
        ub = (ulong)temp[1].s1 + ((ulong)temp[1].s2<<32); 
        x = (temp[0].s0 > temp[1].s0) || ((temp[0].s0 == temp[1].s0) && (ua < ub)) ; 
        a.s0 = select(temp[1].s0,temp[0].s0,x); 
        a.s1 = select(temp[1].s1,temp[0].s1,x); 
        a.s2 = select(temp[1].s2,temp[0].s2,x); 
        a.s3 = temp[0].s3 + temp[1].s3; 
        out[get_group_id(0)] = a; 
    } 
}
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poppinfresh99

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Message 102903 - Posted: 9 Feb 2021, 13:54:51 UTC - in response to Message 102842.  

I have actually just discovered that certain types of sieves can be used when reducing to 1! A 3^2 (or 3^1) sieve works very nicely, but the 2^k sieve that you can create has a huge what-I-call deltaN that is a real pain for not-wonderful gain. See my webpage for more details!
https://www.bradleyknockel.com/collatz/

Anyway, the BOINC Collatz project uses the invalid kind of sieve for reducing numbers to 1.
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robsmith
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Message 102906 - Posted: 9 Feb 2021, 17:11:45 UTC

You need to take this up with the BOINC Collatz project directly rather than indirectly - remember BOINC does not run the Collatz project and has no control over the accuracy, or otherwise, of their applications.
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poppinfresh99

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Message 102943 - Posted: 9 Feb 2021, 22:25:21 UTC - in response to Message 102906.  

Thanks for the reply robsmith. I have taken it up with the project, but Jon Sonntag deleted my posts, so I would like the truth to appear at least somewhere. If you don't mind, I would like to post a bit more information here, so then I can simply link to this thread. I'd rather Jon Sonntag delete a simple link than be able to delete the entire thread. Also, can't BOINC remove the project from their list?
https://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php

I have found smoking-gun proof!

By running a task from the BOINC Collatz project, I found a file called sieve26.bin!

I ran the following Linux command (on my macOS actually)...
od -N 256 -t u4 sieve26.bin


Giving the result...
0000000           1037374               0              27              31
0000020                47              63              71              91
0000040               103             111             155             167
0000060               223             251             447             495
0000100               671             703             795             871
0000120               927            1055            1307            1383
0000140              1407            1471            1583            1639
0000160              1695            1743            1819            2047
0000200              2111            2151            2207            2215
0000220              2287            2375            2543            2559
0000240              2715            2751            2815            2943
0000260              3055            3071            3099            3175
0000300              3227            3323            3391            3399
0000320              3431            3567            3631            3711
0000340              3739            3823            3839            3943
0000360              3951            4095            4123            4127


If you run the following simple Python 3 code, you can reproduce the above invalid 2^26 sieve.

k = 26
nStart = 3
count = 0
while nStart < 2**k:
  nStart += 4    # since only n%4 == 3 are in the sieve
  n = nStart
  for i in range(k):
    if n%2 == 1:   # odd
      n = (3*n+1) // 2
    else:
      n = n // 2
    if n < nStart:
      break
    if i == k-1:
      if count < 62:
        print(nStart)
      count += 1

print(count)


I can now for sure conclude that the results of the BOINC Collatz project are invalid!

I asked David Baƙina for his expert input, and he agrees that this type of sieve is invalid. He sent me this link for valid sieves...
http://www.ericr.nl/wondrous/techpage.html
When searching for highest steps, we must only use the sieves described in the "class record algorithm" section of the above link.
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Message 102944 - Posted: 10 Feb 2021, 0:14:45 UTC - in response to Message 102943.  

Also, can't BOINC remove the project from their list?

If we're to remove every project from the list that one person finds something about, we've got nothing left.

Now I don't mind you posting this here, but do know that we cannot help you. BOINC is just a managing program, we don't tell projects how they run their project or how they want to use BOINC for their purpose.
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Ian&Steve C.

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Message 103017 - Posted: 16 Feb 2021, 14:48:41 UTC

Collatz is just a points faucet. I thought everyone knew that?
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Message 103218 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 16:05:47 UTC - in response to Message 103017.  
Last modified: 25 Feb 2021, 16:06:42 UTC

Collatz is just a points faucet. I thought everyone knew that?
Which is why points should be more controlled. This is something Boinc should be sorting out. People who do Boinc for points are not right in the head, but there are a lot of them about with a lot of computing power, doing projects because they give more points, instead of them being more worthwhile. Make the points equal per flop or something, and people would only be able to choose projects on how worthwhile they are.
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Message 103222 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 17:54:39 UTC - in response to Message 103218.  

Collatz is just a points faucet. I thought everyone knew that?
Which is why points should be more controlled. This is something Boinc should be sorting out. People who do Boinc for points are not right in the head, but there are a lot of them about with a lot of computing power, doing projects because they give more points, instead of them being more worthwhile. Make the points equal per flop or something, and people would only be able to choose projects on how worthwhile they are.


Why on earth should BOINC sort it out. Surely that should be down to the people who maintain the leader boards etc. i.e. BOINCstats. Boinc is about the program and has unless I have completely misread how it all works, nothing to do with how points are allocated save that it has a mechanism for projects to award points.
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Message 103229 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 19:35:04 UTC - in response to Message 103222.  

Collatz is just a points faucet. I thought everyone knew that?
Which is why points should be more controlled. This is something Boinc should be sorting out. People who do Boinc for points are not right in the head, but there are a lot of them about with a lot of computing power, doing projects because they give more points, instead of them being more worthwhile. Make the points equal per flop or something, and people would only be able to choose projects on how worthwhile they are.


Why on earth should BOINC sort it out. Surely that should be down to the people who maintain the leader boards etc. i.e. BOINCstats. Boinc is about the program and has unless I have completely misread how it all works, nothing to do with how points are allocated save that it has a mechanism for projects to award points.
Credits are a part of the Boinc client and server. They put them there but did it badly. There's no point in credits if a project can hand out any number it likes.
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Message 103231 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 19:58:26 UTC

BOINC provided one mechanism for projects to award credits, but also gives the projects autonomy over whether they use that mechanism or one of their own design. A good many projects decided that they would go their own way. I suspect it is the majority of "large" projects - where they have the resource to do the appropriate development.
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 103233 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 20:24:25 UTC

My concern is that, whatever the credit scale that the project - any project - has chosen to pay credits at, David converts them back into GFlops at the defined, Cobblestone, rate. And then claims that the resulting figure is a true measure of the contribution that volunteer computing collectively makes to science. In the case of the project which started this discussion, that claim is quite possibly fraudulent.

But It's David's reverse calculation from credit to flops which is fraudulent, not the project's way of allocating credits in the first place.

I wrote it up once at SETI@Home.
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Message 103234 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 20:31:58 UTC - in response to Message 103229.  

Credits are a part of the Boinc client and server. They put them there but did it badly. There's no point in credits if a project can hand out any number it likes.
BOINC software is open source, this means that you can download it and change everything in it that you want without legal problems.That means that any credit sets can be changed by anyone who downloaded and edited the software, backend, front end, everything. Only if BOINC were to become closed proprietary software could it depict to projects how much credit they could give out for their work.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 103250 - Posted: 26 Feb 2021, 18:46:47 UTC - in response to Message 103231.  

BOINC provided one mechanism for projects to award credits, but also gives the projects autonomy over whether they use that mechanism or one of their own design. A good many projects decided that they would go their own way. I suspect it is the majority of "large" projects - where they have the resource to do the appropriate development.
True, at least one project I know of gives more credits if you do subprojects which most avoid (i.e. the longer running tasks).
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poppinfresh99

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Message 103305 - Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 18:37:13 UTC - in response to Message 103250.  

Update: Jon Sonntag now claims that he never was trying to find highest steps even though *all* of the results he posts are of highest steps, and, at massive time and electricity cost, he reduces numbers to 1 while counting the steps it takes to do so.

Maybe he is being honest about not trying to find highest steps and is just extremely confused? Either way, there is code that is 7700% or 3500% faster (for CPU and GPU, respectively), making the project a waste of time and electricity regardless of whether or not one feels that the Collatz conjecture should still be experimentally tested.

Here are ways he can speed up his code, which have been communicated to him as well (over the past 12 months)...
(1) By not reducing to 1 and just reducing below the starting number, you only need to do 3.492652 steps on average, which is a *vast* improvement over the 4.8 * log2(N) steps of his current approach (where log2(N) is approximately 70). What I mean by the starting number is the 9 in the following example...
9 -> 14 -> 7 -> 11 -> 17 -> 26 -> 13 -> 20 -> 10 -> 5 -> 8 -> 4 -> 2 -> 1
Once you get to 7, you stop because it is less than the starting 9. Just 2 steps are needed instead of the above many steps. Then, when you test the starting number of 10, it immediately reduces to 5, so you move to 11. Of course, a good sieve would prevent 9, 10, and 11 from ever being tested, but you get the idea. For this to work, you can't skip anything not excluded by a sieve.
(2) For a 2^k sieve and a given k, I exclude about 25% more numbers than he does by removing numbers that join the paths of smaller numbers.
(3) My "sieveless" method allows me to run FAR larger sieves. His 2^26 sieve requires me to test 1.3% of numbers, but a 2^60 sieve, which my "sieveless" technique can do, would probably run only 0.05% of numbers. This is a *vast* improvement.
(4) Using a 3^1 sieve allows me to run 67% of the numbers he currently runs. A 3^2 sieve allows me to test 55% of the numbers he currently runs.

I mentioned BOINC credit as a side note earlier. The fact that his code isn't valid is a larger concern!

As for making code that is actually valid, the following has been communicated to the project...
(1) One should create checksums of steps-to-reduce-below-starting-number as you go then compare the checksum with another device that is validating the task. These checksums require minimal computational time. David Barina's code makes these checksums if you want to see how they are done. I temporarily put them in my "sieveless" code as well to compare my checksums against his (they were the same), though my "repeated k steps" code hasn't yet been compared to any other code (though it indirectly has via my "reduce to 1" code reproducing known records).
(2) Reduce maxStep in the OpenCL kernel. Even better, have a better way of detecting a GPU watchdog timer! Note that the checksum is not enough because the checksum will never be updated for *any* device with a watchdog timer that encounters an infinite cycle that would disprove the Collatz conjecture.
(3) Do not use Intel or AMD devices that fail an initial arithmetic-accuracy test. On my webpage, I provide some basic arithmetic tests that many Intel and AMD devices fail (the ones that fail worrisomely give the same wrong answers as each other).

He must then start over. But, with the massive speedup of good code and the always-faster GPUs that people have, he could easily reproduce all of his previous results in a matter of months.
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Message 103310 - Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 18:54:47 UTC

Sadly projects that don't do the science properly (within the limits of "current" understanding) bring the whole world of distributed computing into a poor light.
I hope he manages to sort out the errant code quickly and re-run whatever data needs to be re-run. The harder part of the issue to solve is re-establishing public trust and confidence.
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Message 103311 - Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 19:02:38 UTC - in response to Message 103308.  

At that speed, you should start up a rival project yourself. How easy is it to run a Boinc server?


Sadly, I do not want to for many reasons...
(1) I don't have the hardware or Internet package necessary to do this. My newest computer is from 2012, and Xfinity doesn't let me host a server. I am perfectly happy with my hardware at the moment.
(2) I honestly think that the Collatz conjecture has been experimentally tested enough. I was motivated to write these codes because I find the algorithms and mathematical tricks to be fascinating.
(3) I would much prefer that people use their resources to cure diseases on BOINC.
(4) I simply wouldn't enjoy managing a BOINC project, though helping someone set one up would be a fun learning experience. I prefer math and code (and other things).

Thanks for asking, but please now respect my choice (others have not been so respectful).

But I'd be very happy to let someone else use my code for a BOINC project because, if you are going to use resources, you should be using the best code! In fact, over the summer, I could even help you set it up! I'm kinda curious about how setting up BOINC projects works, and I like the BOINC philosophy of giving people choice to compute whatever they want.
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Peter Hucker
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Message 103315 - Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 21:07:37 UTC - in response to Message 103311.  

ophy of giving people choice to compute whatever they want.
- can't quote more than that or I break rule 462B subsection F.

I've run servers before and find it fun (it wasn't Boinc, a games server and a er.... something else). But unless someone funds an Elon Musk satellite internet connection for me, I doubt sending at 9Mbit would be any use. The two above were from my work's connection. Sssh!

You never know what could come of continuing the project, for example people working out new programming or calculation methods. I thought it seemed like a waste of time, as with finding prime numbers, but if you read up on it there's all sorts of interesting patterns that develop.

But this business of artificially (presumably deliberately) inflating the credits so people who don't care which project they run but want to get high up in the leaderboards all choose this one, that's just underhanded. Perhaps Boinc could remove it from the recommended list until he makes the credits in line with other projects?
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Message 104368 - Posted: 12 May 2021, 12:05:58 UTC

Reading all this, I cancelled the collatz project, although I love mathematical Projects. It is better to do Folding at this times.
_heinz
ID: 104368 · Report as offensive

Message boards : Projects : bad news everyone, results of the BOINC Collatz project are invalid

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