Distributed Hardware Evolution

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boboviz
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Message 86547 - Posted: 13 Jun 2018, 7:09:02 UTC

Distribuited Hardware Evolution

DHEP allows you to host an island running a Genetic Algorithm in an island based coevolutionary setting synthesising future super-reliable electronics such as those used in autonomous vehicles, power stations, medical equipment, aerospace. These are of increasingly paramount importance as more and more human lives rely on well functioning hardware.


The project is in beta and they are working on boinc app (now is standalone).
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Dr Who Fan
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Message 86553 - Posted: 13 Jun 2018, 16:04:20 UTC - in response to Message 86547.  

PROJECT HAS NO MESSGE BOARD YET.
Received 3 task so far and all 3 have failed immediately because one or more files are missing from the download.
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Profile Jord
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Message 86554 - Posted: 13 Jun 2018, 16:25:01 UTC - in response to Message 86547.  

Just reading.
to host an island running a Genetic Algorithm in an island - What?

based coevolutionary setting synthesising future super-reliable electronics such as those used in autonomous vehicles, power stations, medical equipment, aerospace. - So they're talking about the Internet of Things? If this is to run on that, what do they need us for?

These are of increasingly paramount importance as more and more human lives rely on well functioning hardware. - Uh... so why do a BOINC project that's hardware based (see name) and is supposedly looking at new IoT implementations? How are they using a user's computer to figure that out?

Observation of population dynamics will also help us understand Evolution, not only to harness it to reach 'better than human' designs, but also to learn how migration rates, genetic diversity and the inner mechanisms of genetic recombination have concerted to reach the biodiversity and wonder of living organisms today. - So they're not looking into new IoT implementations?

DHEP is based at the University of Sussex. - I put the link as they did it and can tell you that doesn't work.

Now the explanation from http://www.dhep.ga/ is way better, after you managed to get past the initial blurb which again doesn't make sense...
Host an island with a population of circuits struggling for survival in a hostile online world. During your PCs idle time individuals from this population will evolve through artificial evolution in a process of survival of the meekest into circuits with Concurrent Error Detection (CED) and will compete with those hosted on other PCs by migrating to and from them. These circuits will not be constrained by conventional design rules since evolution finds efficient solutions without worrying about how complex they are to understand - just as it did with our own bodies and brains.

Just start reading from Self-Diagnosing Hardware and it's more understandable. Also, the stand-alone client was Java based. I'm not sure how far the developers came with integrating Java into BOINC, but fingers crossed they manage to figure this out.
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Jim1348

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Message 86557 - Posted: 13 Jun 2018, 16:54:03 UTC - in response to Message 86556.  

I had a somewhat different concern. If it works, aren't we helping computers to take over the world?
Is it not developing the ultimate trojan/virus/back door?
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boboviz
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Message 86558 - Posted: 13 Jun 2018, 19:25:49 UTC - in response to Message 86554.  

Just start reading from Self-Diagnosing Hardware and it's more understandable. Also, the stand-alone client was Java based. I'm not sure how far the developers came with integrating Java into BOINC, but fingers crossed they manage to figure this out.


Michael Garvie, project's admin, wrote to me and gave me more info
http://users.sussex.ac.uk/~mmg20/
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Coleslaw
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Message 86560 - Posted: 13 Jun 2018, 22:19:43 UTC

One of my teammates just reported this to me:

Their site appears to contain a trojan, per my ESET NOD32 anti-virus software. I get the following message when trying to access the site:


ESET NOD32 Antivirus
Threat found
This web page contains potentially dangerous content.

Threat: HTML/ScrInject.B trojan

Access to it has been blocked. Your computer is safe.


I'm hoping it is a false positive, but people need to proceed with caution.
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mmonnin

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Message 86562 - Posted: 14 Jun 2018, 13:39:46 UTC

I had tried the standalone for like 5min but the java app was using all CPU cycles and was interring with normal BOINC operations. No exes could be seen running. CPU would be at 100% but no tasks over normal windows 1-3% usage in Task Mgr and Process Lasso. Uninstalled.
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boboviz
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Message 86563 - Posted: 14 Jun 2018, 16:13:58 UTC

He has released today a new app for boinc with a lot of work.
And he has opened the forum.
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Michael DHEP

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Message 86707 - Posted: 26 Jun 2018, 21:27:34 UTC - in response to Message 86560.  
Last modified: 26 Jun 2018, 21:31:37 UTC

One of my teammates just reported this

This is indeed a false positive - confirmed also by Yoyo. In fact there are many reports of false positives from the same "anti-virus" software (https://forum.eset.com/topic/1406-htmlscrinjectbgen-virus-false-positive/ ). One the of the reports mentions a false positive for a website that had almost nothing on it. ESET's response was that it was suspicious because "it had a smiley face on it".

You'd be better off spending your money on well established anti-virus software such as AVG or pretty much any other all of which report dhep.ga and dhep.ga/boinc as clean.
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Michael DHEP

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Message 86708 - Posted: 26 Jun 2018, 21:29:49 UTC - in response to Message 86557.  
Last modified: 26 Jun 2018, 21:30:54 UTC

I had a somewhat different concern. If it works, aren't we helping computers to take over the world?


Ermm... no. It's developing super-reliable electronics such as those used in hardware were human lives are at risk. These are increasingly ubiquitous in our environment such as self-driving cars, elevator-controlling hardware, drones, aerospace, power stations, high speed trains, etc..
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Michael DHEP

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Message 86709 - Posted: 26 Jun 2018, 21:32:18 UTC - in response to Message 86547.  
Last modified: 26 Jun 2018, 22:13:50 UTC

Distribuited Hardware Evolution

DHEP allows you to host an island running a Genetic Algorithm in an island based coevolutionary setting synthesising future super-reliable electronics such as those used in autonomous vehicles, power stations, medical equipment, aerospace. These are of increasingly paramount importance as more and more human lives rely on well functioning hardware.


The project is in beta and they are working on boinc app (now is standalone).


Our BOINC app is now in BETA. Credits are being allocated.
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Michael DHEP

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Message 86710 - Posted: 26 Jun 2018, 21:35:43 UTC - in response to Message 86554.  

Just reading.
These are of increasingly paramount importance as more and more human lives rely on well functioning hardware. - Uh... so why do a BOINC project that's hardware based (see name) and is supposedly looking at new IoT implementations? How are they using a user's computer to figure that out?

Hello Ageless it sounds like you've figured it out from reading http://dhep.ga but we digital evolve hardware in simulation using CPU cycles on contributor's PCs. If you'd like to see some of the evolved designs and try them out in a simulator you can check the 'Better than Human' Hall of Fame at http://www.dhep.ga/statstschof.php
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Michael DHEP

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Message 86711 - Posted: 26 Jun 2018, 21:43:22 UTC - in response to Message 86562.  
Last modified: 26 Jun 2018, 22:12:59 UTC

I had tried the standalone for like 5min but the java app was using all CPU cycles and was interring with normal BOINC operations. No exes could be seen running. CPU would be at 100% but no tasks over normal windows 1-3% usage in Task Mgr and Process Lasso. Uninstalled.

If you wanted to control the thread to core ratio in the standalone app it can be done with installer parameters as detailed in our FAQ: http://dhep.ga/faq.php#mcpu
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mmonnin

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Message 86713 - Posted: 26 Jun 2018, 23:35:00 UTC - in response to Message 86711.  

I had tried the standalone for like 5min but the java app was using all CPU cycles and was interring with normal BOINC operations. No exes could be seen running. CPU would be at 100% but no tasks over normal windows 1-3% usage in Task Mgr and Process Lasso. Uninstalled.

If you wanted to control the thread to core ratio in the standalone app it can be done with installer parameters as detailed in our FAQ: http://dhep.ga/faq.php#mcpu


Nope, I'm not running that standalone program that is hidden from the OS and causes major input lag.

As for the BOINC app, the tasks really need to end cause it really screws with other projects. There are other projects that have some generic BOINC task and connect to other servers to get the real work. But all those tasks end.
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Michael DHEP

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Message 86721 - Posted: 27 Jun 2018, 12:58:19 UTC - in response to Message 86713.  
Last modified: 27 Jun 2018, 12:59:09 UTC

Nope, I'm not running that standalone program that is hidden from the OS and causes major input lag.

Thanks for trying out the Windows standalone client. This is installed as a Windows Service and is clearly visible in the Services section of the Control Panel. It is also visible in your Start Menu items. Actually the title of the link you clicked on to download it says "Automatic Installation as Service" clearly stating where you will find it in the OS: http://www.dhep.ga/download.php#winnt . Each service can be started and stopped independently as well so you can configure how many cores are active as you go. Linux and Mac standalone clients are script based and of course can also be configured to use as many cores as you wish.

As for the BOINC app, the tasks really need to end cause it really screws with other projects. There are other projects that have some generic BOINC task and connect to other servers to get the real work. But all those tasks end.

Would you mind stating how it affects other projects. The run priority is the same and you can jump in and out of DHE tasks as you like. As discussed at length in the DHE forums, a Genetic Algorithm is a process which runs indefinitely so it is hard to put a cut off time for completion and progress is monitored every 15 minutes and credit allocated as such without requiring task completion.

However we're always open to feedback and on how to improve the DHE @ BOINC experience in general.
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mmonnin

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Message 86737 - Posted: 28 Jun 2018, 18:52:57 UTC - in response to Message 86721.  

Nope, I'm not running that standalone program that is hidden from the OS and causes major input lag.

Thanks for trying out the Windows standalone client. This is installed as a Windows Service and is clearly visible in the Services section of the Control Panel. It is also visible in your Start Menu items. Actually the title of the link you clicked on to download it says "Automatic Installation as Service" clearly stating where you will find it in the OS: http://www.dhep.ga/download.php#winnt . Each service can be started and stopped independently as well so you can configure how many cores are active as you go. Linux and Mac standalone clients are script based and of course can also be configured to use as many cores as you wish.

As for the BOINC app, the tasks really need to end cause it really screws with other projects. There are other projects that have some generic BOINC task and connect to other servers to get the real work. But all those tasks end.

Would you mind stating how it affects other projects. The run priority is the same and you can jump in and out of DHE tasks as you like. As discussed at length in the DHE forums, a Genetic Algorithm is a process which runs indefinitely so it is hard to put a cut off time for completion and progress is monitored every 15 minutes and credit allocated as such without requiring task completion.

However we're always open to feedback and on how to improve the DHE @ BOINC experience in general.


Service exes are visible in task manager but the standalone isn't. In Win7 I could only see 100% CPU usage and no process using it. Just a couple % here there for the OS.

Once a task is downloaded it is immediately in High priority and stops other tasks from running. If a PC is full of high priority tasks, typically other tasks will not run until they near their own deadline and also become high priority. If the ETAs according to BOINC aren't correct (sometimes tasks run times vary and some types of tasks just can't give remotely close ETA) then tasks can miss deadlines. I'm not even sure what the long runtimes do to the queues for other projects. I've only allowed 1 or 2 tasks to download.

Some people run just a project or two so they may not care about one project interfering with another. Part of what I like about BOINC are the many projects participating. Competitions at different projects or my team supporting different projects each month to keep things interesting.

WUProp monitors other BOINC projects continuously but has tasks that run for 6 hours, finishesand another downloads. There is no trickle message in the background like DHE but DHE work could be uploaded at the end of 15min, 30min, an hour, etc tasks vs doing it in the background of a never ending task. This would make DHE act like other projects. Jumping in and out would just be like a project suspend or No New Work for other projects.
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Michael DHEP

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Message 86739 - Posted: 28 Jun 2018, 20:20:04 UTC - in response to Message 86737.  
Last modified: 28 Jun 2018, 20:20:15 UTC

Service exes are visible in task manager but the standalone isn't. In Win7 I could only see 100% CPU usage and no process using it. Just a couple % here there for the OS.

Dear mmonnin I'm going to have to be brutally honest with you here. But if you don't know how to use Windows it isn't really our problem and you have no right to be blaming a project for issues which stem from your lack of knowledge of your own OS.

Windows Services are usually run with a user which will run in the background no matter which person is actively logged in. To see such processes in the task manager you must click on the "Show processes from all users" button and TADA.. a series of java.exe processes will be revealed. This, I repeat, is as well as being clearly shown in the Services control panel and Start menu...

Once a task is downloaded it is immediately in High priority and stops other tasks from running.

I'm sorry but this - again - is simply untrue. The wrapper is run with normal BOINC priority just like any other wrapper based app.

WUProp monitors other BOINC projects continuously but has tasks that run for 6 hours, finishesand another downloads. There is no trickle message in the background like DHE but DHE work could be uploaded at the end of 15min, 30min, an hour, etc tasks vs doing it in the background of a never ending task. This would make DHE act like other projects. Jumping in and out would just be like a project suspend or No New Work for other projects.

Yes this would be an option. However as I've mentioned in the forums, a Genetic Algorithm (https://everipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithm/) benefits from stable islands. Stopping and starting the task would stop and start the GA which would disrupt it's operation. I've heard of other projects which have tasks lasting six months. However all your feedback is appreciated and we are working with Yoyo @ BOINC to make sure DHE integrates into their infrastructure in the best possible way.

All the best.
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 86740 - Posted: 28 Jun 2018, 21:34:48 UTC - in response to Message 86739.  

As a minor intervention in this discussion, the word 'priority' is tricky and means different things to different people in different contexts.

I think Michael is referring to process priority on the CPU (aka 'niceness' in Linux).

I think mmonnin is referring to BOINC scheduling priority (aka 'Earliest Deadline First').

If I'm right, both of you could also be right at the same time.
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 86746 - Posted: 29 Jun 2018, 12:39:50 UTC

I see from Michael's email to boinc_projects that

(rsc_fpops are very high at the moment and will be brought down to something more sensible)
A high <rsc_fpops_est> will be interpreted by the client as a very long runtime estimate: that will invoke the second form of (scheduling) priority more-or-less whatever deadline is set. I think that completes the explanation.
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Michael DHEP

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Message 86767 - Posted: 29 Jun 2018, 20:09:09 UTC - in response to Message 86746.  

A high <rsc_fpops_est> will be interpreted by the client as a very long runtime estimate: that will invoke the second form of (scheduling) priority more-or-less whatever deadline is set. I think that completes the explanation.


Hello Richard thanks for your message. What exactly do you mean by the second form of (scheduling) priority? https://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/ClientSched appears to suggest tasks with deadlines a long time in the future will have lower priority than those with upcoming deadlines.

Or are we simply referring to the fact that the round-robin will have to wait longer to reallocate?
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Message boards : Projects : Distributed Hardware Evolution

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