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Sirius B
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Message 79198 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 10:12:24 UTC - in response to Message 79197.  

Hold on, we're going to need a quango to debate that :-)
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Sirius B
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Message 79200 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 10:28:41 UTC - in response to Message 79199.  

For crying out loud! Do you have to continuously ruin your own posts?

So doddering pensioners, babies, primary school kids are breeding?

Time to cool down :-)
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 79201 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 10:38:53 UTC

The next question I would ask is whether there is any connection between the owners of building materials companies, and the politicians responsible for drafting (or not drafting) building regulations - party donations, shared membership of rolled-up-trouser-leg societies, that sort of thing.
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Sirius B
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Message 79202 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 10:42:59 UTC - in response to Message 79201.  

Thought that was pretty obvious. Wasn't a Housing Bill recently voted against by 72 MP's? MPs' who were landlords themselves btw.
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Sirius B
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Message 79203 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 10:49:50 UTC

I am definitely not anti monarchy. Sadly...

Oh dear

...isn't the monarch head of the church?

So much for pomp & circumstance :-(
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Sirius B
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Message 79205 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 10:55:12 UTC - in response to Message 79204.  
Last modified: 22 Jun 2017, 10:56:33 UTC

melodramatic?

You stated 65 million, that is practically everybody in the country.

Suggest you think before you type.

Unless you think that the remaining 140,000 are pensioners, babies & school kids :-)
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 79206 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 10:57:48 UTC - in response to Message 79202.  

I was approaching it from the point of view of the materials manufacturer/supplier. Reynobond is patented - Composite panel with a foamed plastic core, US 6455148 B1 - which gives it a certain amount of monopoly protection.

The patent makes much of architectural uses, and cites the Reynobond trade mark. It mentions that the outer metal sheets are "made from a corrosion-resistant aluminum alloy" (american spelling), but the word 'fire' (as in testing, retardant, etc.) appears nowhere.
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Sirius B
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Message 79207 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 10:59:42 UTC - in response to Message 79206.  

Sorry, good point.
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Profile Pickled Onion Monster Munch
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Message 79214 - Posted: 22 Jun 2017, 18:06:57 UTC - in response to Message 79206.  

I was approaching it from the point of view of the materials manufacturer/supplier. Reynobond is patented - Composite panel with a foamed plastic core, US 6455148 B1 - which gives it a certain amount of monopoly protection.

The patent makes much of architectural uses, and cites the Reynobond trade mark. It mentions that the outer metal sheets are "made from a corrosion-resistant aluminum alloy" (american spelling), but the word 'fire' (as in testing, retardant, etc.) appears nowhere.

Probably because "fire" and "plastic" mix very very well.
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Profile Gary Charpentier
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Message 79218 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 0:23:52 UTC - in response to Message 79214.  

I was approaching it from the point of view of the materials manufacturer/supplier. Reynobond is patented - Composite panel with a foamed plastic core, US 6455148 B1 - which gives it a certain amount of monopoly protection.

The patent makes much of architectural uses, and cites the Reynobond trade mark. It mentions that the outer metal sheets are "made from a corrosion-resistant aluminum alloy" (american spelling), but the word 'fire' (as in testing, retardant, etc.) appears nowhere.

Probably because "fire" and "plastic" mix very very well.
Yes, to make plastic start with petrol.
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Sirius B
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Message 79227 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 7:30:56 UTC

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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 79228 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 8:27:03 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jun 2017, 8:54:08 UTC

Reynobond make no claim that their [PE] product meets any fire safety regulations or is non combustible.
Which is why they make separate, more expensive, fire resistant products called Reynobond FR and Reynobond A2.

Councillors are ordinary people like you and me often with no specific technical expertise
Which is why they hire council officers (the local equivalent of civil servants) to write recommendations for them.

Chancellor Philip Hammond has said he thought the Grenfell cladding was banned in the UK.
Under aggressive quick-fire questioning on a Sunday morning television show. I see nothing in his career in governemt (but see *) that would qualify him to make such a statement - except maybe it's banned on Defence properties, which Nick 666 told us here (**) are built to different standards? The TV shows are designed to trick unwary politicians into saying things they shouldn't have and thus get some lively headlines for the lunchtime news: I think this is another example.

* Maybe we should send the building inspectors to check out Castlemead Homes?

** Nick's post was at the other place
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Sirius B
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Message 79231 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 9:21:37 UTC - in response to Message 79230.  

The answer to that I think will come down to what the Right Honourable Member for Cambridgeshire & the Right Honourable Member for South London both agree on - Abuse of government contracts :-(
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 79232 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 9:26:54 UTC - in response to Message 79230.  

WHICH grade of Reynobond was specified at the Grenfell Tower (and others), and WHICH grade was fitted?
An important distinction - watch for news from Camden. Anybody else getting a whiff of John Poulson and T. Dan Smith here?
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 79234 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 10:25:16 UTC - in response to Message 79230.  

Generally the full time Council officials are simply the equivalent of, as you say, local civil servants, there is generally no specific expertise there other than in administrative matters.
I think that may be a fair statement of current political fashion, but it deeply undervalues the role traditionally played by local government in planning and building our towns and cities. There are some telling statements relevant to the current controversy in Which councils employ the most in-house architects?:

The decision by Croydon bucks the trend of recent decades, which has seen councils ridding themselves of their architects departments.

But though the days have gone when councils employed ranks of draftsmen – the London County Council architects department boasted more than 1,500 staff in 1953 – some authorities still have considerable in-house architectural expertise.

Councils in Scotland are particularly well stocked with architects – as is Hampshire County Architects which has been described as ‘the only sizeable public-sector county architecture studio still remaining’, and employs 44 qualified architects.
I can't find Kensington & Chelsea in the list of 19 London boroughs which still employ at least one architect - maybe yours is missing too?
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Sirius B
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Message 79235 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 10:34:49 UTC

"Insulation on the building also failed tests and the Metropolitan Police will consider manslaughter charges"

The question is: Will the CPS follow through?
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anniet
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Message 79236 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 12:21:18 UTC - in response to Message 79235.  
Last modified: 23 Jun 2017, 12:34:02 UTC

"Insulation on the building also failed tests and the Metropolitan Police will consider manslaughter charges"

The question is: Will the CPS follow through?

They're already at breaking point though due to staff shortages caused by... I believe we're supposed to use the term efficiency savings. My friend accepted voluntary redundancy as a result. She is a very, very, very good prosecutor. She never lost a case and has a disturbingly good nose for nefariousness no matter how well it's covered. You don't want to get caught with an inconsistency anywhere in anything. Her contract of termination forbade her returning to the law profession for two years I think it was. That was three years ago - and she is spitting mad. Maybe we need a People's Prosecution Service. Headed up by her.

It was right that I was picked up on that.
*serial blink* I'm sure they weren't reciprocating any suggestion that you should stop participating here though, Chris. Not at all ;) No, just that it's worth remembering that tanks in a sandpit can be just as easily targeted from submarines in a paddling pool...

;)
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Message 79237 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 12:35:18 UTC - in response to Message 79236.  

He hasn't left, just switched to PMs - two so far since my last post. We've been talking about the power of local councils to employ Direct Labour Organisations. Since they're private, I can't tell you about the Scar House Reservoir.

Oops :-)
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anniet
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Message 79238 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 13:15:54 UTC - in response to Message 79237.  

He hasn't left, just switched to PMs - two so far since my last post.
Oh. Well if it persists there's one thing we could do...

;)

We've been talking about the power of local councils to employ Direct Labour Organisations.
You haven't.

Since they're private, I can't tell you about the really large paddling pool.
Well obviously no - and I wouldn't dream of expecting you to...

;)
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 79239 - Posted: 23 Jun 2017, 14:13:22 UTC

Now Chris has queried the phrase 'Fires connected to fridge freezers and other electrical appliances are relatively common' used in a BBC report.

I dug out (From FIRE0601 on https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/fire-statistics-data-tables - most recent year only.)

Total Accidental				28428
Faulty fuel supplies			 	 2384
Faulty appliances and leads			 4328
Misuse of equipment or appliances		10197
Chip/fat pan fires				 1755
Playing with fire				  212
Careless handling of fire or hot substances	 2864
Placing articles too close to heat		 3456
Other accidental				 3226
Unspecified					    6

Most common cause after misuse - sounds reasonable to me. That's precisely why it's important that fires are contained within the flat and don't spread.
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