The Einstein & BOINC forums make-over discussion

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Profile Ageless
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Message 71252 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 10:48:06 UTC
Last modified: 7 Aug 2016, 1:27:05 UTC

All right, post your comments about the new Einstein Drupal mess in this thread.
(Original thread name "Has Einstein bitten off more than it can chew?"

A discussion thread about the new Einstein forums. Do you like them, don't you like them? Do you feel it's a step forwards or back? Let's keep the discussion civil, anyone's opinion about them is valid. We're not trying to get everyone to see how anyone else sees the forums.

I wrote about them:
When those forums were in testing, I requested that they add who started a thread to the forum index. But that wasn't interesting. That I use it for things as not going into threads started by people I don't want to read anything from, was beyond them.

You can also see that Drupal is specifically for mobile stuff, because on a computer screen it looks crap, as you have everything in the middle, and then two big white bars left and right. I hope no one is following their example.

Of course, being a Member since: 1 January 1970 is nice and all... but really, going to your account and then changing preferences has never been made so frickin' difficult as in here.
Edit: try changing your signature... the text is white and a white background. Why can it never be that when they roll out crap like this that it's been tested to the bone?
Edit2: and you can't really do anything. Hate someone, want to put them on ignore? Not an option.
Want to rearrange the forums so all those stickies aren't at the top? Not an option.
Edit3: ....just look under the "Post new comment" section, couldn't they put that under a link to a new page? It's the "Help, how do I post crap" section. Now a three post thread becomes huge because of all the scrolling.


And I also said, "Oh, by the way, I have done my part and left their forums for good for now. If they feel that Albert is no longer needed for the alpha test of their software, but it can easily move in its broken form to the main site, that's up to them. I'm not going to be helping to test any further and provide material they don't want to fix or add anyway."
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quote: "Isn't the best defense always a good attack?"
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Message 71257 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 12:56:59 UTC - in response to Message 71252.  

All right, post your comments about the new Einstein Drupal mess in this thread.


Would it be more useful to post comments at the project itself?

Edit: oh, by the way, I have done my part and left their forums for good for now. If they feel that Albert is no longer needed for the alpha test of their software, but it can easily move in its broken form to the main site, that's up to them. I'm not going to be helping to test any further and provide material they don't want to fix or add anyway.


You mentioned you had news from David about Drupal here, is that something you might share, or perhaps David might share his opinion?

E@H was back up on time, crunching working fine during the outage and relatively few bugs. Perhaps not to my taste, but perhaps i'm used to eating the same old boinc-website gruel.

I've been through a number of website changes, i don't think it's a mess at all, a few bugs -yes, a few features missing, stuff such as ignore lists in different places. It is however, up, and there is no comedy outrage thread.

Changing anything to a new format takes a lot of time, and lets be honest, boinc is withering on the vine of neglect. Any project willing to invest and show commitment to DC and boinc should be encouraged.

Kudos to them, i wish them well and would rather help than be a naysayer.
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Message 71259 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 14:26:18 UTC - in response to Message 71257.  

You mentioned you had news from David about Drupal here, is that something you might share, or perhaps David might share his opinion?

Jord at the other thread wrote:
But at least I have the news that David is never going to go with Drupal, and that if he's going to add support for mobile devices that it's code for Bootstrap or some other CSS framework. Of course, someone could just build a BOINC forums app. ;-)

Jord
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quote: "Isn't the best defense always a good attack?"
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Message 71260 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 14:59:35 UTC

Well I only rarely crunch for Einstein, but I am not sure why I would want a screen that is almost half white.

It actually reminds me of really old forums that were for the old "square screens".

Strange choice, somehow the older BOINC pages look more modern.

Still it will all sort itself out, problems will be solved and people will get used to it, or not.
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Message 71261 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 15:32:32 UTC - in response to Message 71259.  

Jord at the other thread wrote:
But at least I have the news that David is never going to go with Drupal, and that if he's going to add support for mobile devices that it's code for Bootstrap or some other CSS framework. Of course, someone could just build a BOINC forums app. ;-)


When is that scheduled to happen?
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Message 71262 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 18:40:20 UTC - in response to Message 71261.  

When he has time.
But even these pages look fine for me in the three browsers I have on my phone (Dolphin, Chrome and the default Android browser). So I'm not even sure why they would need additional code to make them work on mobile devices.
Jord
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quote: "Isn't the best defense always a good attack?"
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Message 71269 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 9:02:15 UTC - in response to Message 71262.  
Last modified: 7 Aug 2016, 9:03:40 UTC

When he has time.
But even these pages look fine for me in the three browsers I have on my phone (Dolphin, Chrome and the default Android browser). So I'm not even sure why they would need additional code to make them work on mobile devices.


OK, so the news is "nothing is going to happen"?

Thanks for changing the thread title from "Has Einstein bitten off more than they can chew?"

There seems to be a misconception that this change was to provide a working mobile site (mainly).

This thread Upcoming Website Relaunch describes E@H motivation and reasons.

For those unable to read the post without my rose-tinted glasses, some key quotes.

E@H Team wrote:
just the beginning

Oliver Bock wrote:
... However, as I said above, this relaunch is just the basis for new developments. The new design won't be the final answer and will most likely be revisited when we move to a newer CMS version for improved mobile use. In the meantime we'll gather your feedback and let it guide our future plans.


If readers don't know what a CMS is, or what Drupal can do, may i suggest visiting Drupal showcases
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Message 71273 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 13:23:11 UTC - in response to Message 71269.  

When he has time.

OK, so the news is "nothing is going to happen"?

That is your interpretation, not mine. But then perhaps you're still thinking of David as a developer who is mainly busy with BOINC, being paid for that work and all. That's wrong.

Since BOINC went to the governance model, his paid job has changed and he's busy with that for most of his time, dividing the rest of his time between his family and friends and BOINC.

Perhaps that if you feel it's so quickly necessary to add something to the BOINC forum web code, that you do so yourself? That's the meaning of BOINC under a governance model, that the public with knowledge adds to the code wherever possible.

If your knowledge isn't so that you can add to the code, perhaps you know someone who can and can ask them?

On the other hand, seeing how a lot of these frameworks are in the news with major hacks, zero day intrusions and hasty quick updates, whereas the BOINC web code in its simpleness has none of those (thus far). Perhaps it's for the better not to hastily add a framework to enhance the mobile sensation, to then find that it's easier to hack the web site and take control over it, than it ever was under plain BOINC.
Jord
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quote: "Isn't the best defense always a good attack?"
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Message 71274 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 16:03:55 UTC - in response to Message 71273.  
Last modified: 7 Aug 2016, 16:05:01 UTC

When he has time.

OK, so the news is "nothing is going to happen"?

That is your interpretation, not mine.


I'm trying to interpret this news you have, and it seems to me, nothing is going to change in the near future. Am I correct?

Earlier Ageless wrote:
David is never going to go with Drupal


Clearly David has reasons for holding a negative opinion of Drupal. I certainly would be interested in those reasons and what alternatives he sees. Of course articulating and engaging, takes time.

If your knowledge isn't so that you can add to the code, perhaps you know someone who can and can ask them?


It isn't, but i have asked a web developer at work about how difficult it would be make a change some time ago, and his question was after a brief look "Why don't they just use a PHP based OpenSource CMS?" and proceeded to rant on about his frustrations of using .NET to which i switched off and nodded occasionally.
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Message 71277 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 17:59:37 UTC

Seti Clasic & Boinc opened the door for Distributed Computing. That has allowed many to participate in various scientific projects of their choice.

Many projects are operating with limited resources & are doing a good job with what they have.

With all the whinging regarding the forums provided whether it be the format, coding or complaints regarding credit awarded, there'll come time when all that will be provided will be the WU's & Q&A board.

I wonder how many of those who state they crunch for the science will actually do so if that actually comes to pass?

For those whinging, set up your own boards if social media is all you want to do.
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Message 71279 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 18:25:17 UTC
Last modified: 7 Aug 2016, 18:26:03 UTC

The kitties just padded over to Einy to have a look see.......
Some of it is not too bad. Informational layout of your main account page has some interesting info on it.
But............
Criminy, think of our EYES.....light blue on a white background?? That is very hard to read. And the amount of blank space in the forums in each post will wear out a lotta scroll buttons. That should be condensed.

Seems like some kids so excited with a new bit of kit that they absolutely must play with it. But don't know how to make it work yet. So they break things.

IMHO, they should have spent a lot more time doing a beta parallel site to work some of these things out and get additional comment and input before launch. I am sure some of these issues will be dealt with sooner rather than later.

Of course, I had similar comments about the GUPPI rollout on Seti.....LOL.
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Message 71281 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 19:26:59 UTC - in response to Message 71279.  

IMHO, they should have spent a lot more time doing a beta parallel site to work some of these things out and get additional comment and input before launch.

They have been testing it for neigh on 3 years at their Albert site, it having been open to the public for all those years.
Jord
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quote: "Isn't the best defense always a good attack?"
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Message 71282 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 19:33:43 UTC - in response to Message 71274.  

Agentb wrote:
I'm trying to interpret this news you have, and it seems to me, nothing is going to change in the near future. Am I correct?

I don't know when David has time, I am not his secretary or able to look in his Filofax. So, when he says he'll do it at some point, he'll get to it. Are we in a hurry?

Agentb wrote:
I certainly would be interested in those reasons and what alternatives he sees.

David Anderson wrote:
I have no intention of using Drupal! At some point - if I ever have time - I'll change the BOINC code to use Bootstrap or some other CSS framework, to make it phone-friendly and more "modern-looking".

Bootstrap has a mechanism for laying out pages differently according to the size of the display. E.g. on a phone, instead of 3 columns it would stack things in 1 column.

Jord
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quote: "Isn't the best defense always a good attack?"
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Message 71283 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 19:36:14 UTC - in response to Message 71281.  

IMHO, they should have spent a lot more time doing a beta parallel site to work some of these things out and get additional comment and input before launch.

They have been testing it for neigh on 3 years at their Albert site, it having been open to the public for all those years.

Well, even though I did do some crunching for Einstein, I was completely unaware of that site.
I am sure they will work the majority of it out to 'most' people's satisfaction, given a bit more time to work on it.

And there are always some people that will resist change whether it turns out to be good OR bad.
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Message 71285 - Posted: 7 Aug 2016, 20:25:57 UTC - in response to Message 71284.  

I didn't know about the Albert site either. But Einstein has the right to do whatever they want with their own site. But if they lose people because of it, then they will have to accept that.

I don't suspect that they will lose too many participants just because their web presence has changed it's appearance.
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Message 71343 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016, 15:19:04 UTC

Just to clear up the bootstrap confusion. It was me who approached David several years ago to implement a better way to switch templates for a project. I tried to implement my own version of a CMS but that was a lot of work so I settled for a smaller approach that would make it easier for projects to change the look of the default page. I always had to maintain backwards compatibility and make this new bootstrap thing optional which was the main hurdle at the time. BOINC does (by design) not separate logic and design so it is hard to implement a framework that has this separation as a prerequisite. Adding the fact that David wanted only minimal changes to the coding logic I quickly lost interest in what could only become a patchwork of code logic and design. There is a reference implementation of bootstrap that is currently used by RNA World and some of the changes needed are already in the source code. Other changes that need to be done are documented. But the main problem is still that BOINC does not separate code logic and design (e.g. HTML is intermingled in low level PHP) which makes it hard to adapt a framework like bootstrap which expects a certain level of separation between the two.

Even implementing a CSS framework would not be the same as using a CMS like Drupal where it is easier for scientists to create content. On the default BOINC page the scientist has to create a HTML page that he links to from the main page. Or the project sets up another framework where they have to import the BOINC user database in order to allow them to use the interactive features (like comments on blog posts) which is a hassle to do. Remember that most projects don't employ developers or administrators with that kind of skill.
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Message 71345 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016, 15:52:53 UTC
Last modified: 9 Aug 2016, 15:55:06 UTC

I don't seem to be able to Reload the Cafe Page this morning... Hmmmmm... :-/


TL

[EDIT]

Never mind... Just got it to go by getting to the Home Page first, and then hitting Community. Now all is well. :-)


TL
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Message 71348 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016, 16:36:42 UTC - in response to Message 71345.  

My main issues with the new formats was the way we couldn't post images and the fact that it keep telling me there were new posts but when I went to the threads, there were none.

Very irritating.

I've given up on even looking at any of the threads until they can get this resolved.

Still love the project, the bulletin board needs some work still, lol..
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Message 71350 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016, 16:37:42 UTC - in response to Message 71348.  
Last modified: 9 Aug 2016, 16:38:57 UTC

My main issues with the new formats was the way we couldn't post images and the fact that it keep telling me there were new posts but when I went to the threads, there were none.

Very irritating.

I've given up on even looking at any of the threads until they can get this resolved.

Still love the project, the bulletin board needs some work still, lol..

Thank God for Seti, eh? When I was visiting the project, the forums were rather...quiet, shall we say.
LOL.
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Message 71378 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016, 20:38:08 UTC - in response to Message 71348.  

My main issues with the new formats was the way we couldn't post images and the fact that it keep telling me there were new posts but when I went to the threads, there were none.

Very irritating.

I've given up on even looking at any of the threads until they can get this resolved.

Still love the project, the bulletin board needs some work still, lol..


I have not seen any report about this whether by you or someone else. Please provide a way to reproduce the problems you have, so they can be fixed. And please don't do that here unless you have a general problem to post on the EaH forums.
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