A few lines didn't didn't stop you fawning over her.

Well I am not actually sure I have ever "fawned" over anyone, haven't heard that word recently.

While I felt the article was written to get a positive reaction, which it did from me, I also felt it brought real life into perspective. I am not sure I could ever "fawn" over someone who kills animals, I am at least prepared to admit it is a necessary part of human life.


PS I have eaten calamari in Spain and here in the UK, let's say there is a huge difference between good and bad, and yours was definitely bad.

This suggests tetchy to me ...

Ohhhhh good. So am I...

When you say "eskimos" Chris... do you mean Inuit, or do you mean meat eaters? I assume meat eaters because you used a small e... (you are one too you know ... really ... you are ;) ...)

Now I have finally cracked the giving up milk thing - I am a fully fledged vegan. Yes :) apart from all those insect parts we learned about in another thread which might make me a teensy bit insectivorous I suppose, or cannibalistic ... as we also learned... ;) but I would think only someone who has never been anything other than a vegetarian could understandably have a view that doesn't express at least some acknowledgement of their former complicity in the practises of the meat industry, and even less do I understand an inability to at least grudgingly thank those who made it possible to enjoy being a meat eater without having to kill their own food to do so - for decade upon decade upon decade upon decade ... - however much personal shame it may or may not involve. I know I am... :/

I have issues with eating animals I have previously seen alive.

I remember when dead chickens came packaged with their feet, and fish always came with their eyes and their heads. It never took much to imagine them walking about on them - the chickens, not the fish... imagining them doing that takes a bit more effort...

...the birds are killed and dismembered...

and their innards and bits were put back inside them in little bags. Boiled chicken gizzards were really quite tasty to nibble as I recall, after my mum scooped them out so she could turn the broth from them into gravy. Perhaps you've never been exposed to the reality of what the meat you were eating once had attached to it, in the UK? Or maybe not in your lifetime...? It seems strange to think that but... suddenly... I do... could I be wrong? ;)

There ways and means of humanely killing animals for food, it doesn't have to be the way it usually is.

Wouldn't someone still have to see them alive first, however humanely they stopped that from continuing dead in its tracks? Even seafood is still alive when they're hauled out of the water pre-suffocating and/or frozen alive to death. They're not all seen of course... but they know they don't want to die while they do...

But with regard to the article that started this off - who is to say that by the time she reaches your age she won't be a true (ie: complete) vegetarian? or that perhaps if you did spend some time in the same room as her you might come to think that to eat something killed for food by an animal lover, might be more humane than food harvested by one who is not.

I remember when dead chickens came packaged with their feet, and fish always came with their eyes and their heads.

Blame the consumer society on that, as they demand that everything is pre-cleaned and easy to use, preferably dropable into a microwave and Ping!

I remember when dead chickens came packaged with their feet, and fish always came with their eyes and their heads. It never took much to imagine them walking about on them - the chickens, not the fish... imagining them doing that takes a bit more effort...

Chickens have always come minus their feet as people don't eat that part of the bird.

Are you saying they aren't people? https://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recipe-detail.asp?recipe=1859445

Chickens with or without feet are not usually considered to be people per se

Chickens have human rights nowadays ?? , just made my day that has , I always 4t that Chickens are poultry same as Turkeys are ,
Political Correctness gone f-ing mental ;-);-);-);-);-);-);-)
Ain't guna stop me eating em or any other meat / meat product :-) , I've even shot Rabbits and Pigeons with a air rifle and shotgun , skinned / plucked , gutted and cooked then eaten them and nice meat to :-) ( ohh even used to " beating " for the local pheasant shoot when they were in season to !!! )
Bet that's Looked down on here but do I care :-)

I used the "e" word as a general description for anyone living in those areas.

If they eat meat you mean. In areas where vegetable crops are likely to be difficult to rely on for regular sustenance, locally resourced food is going to mean eating meat. My way of not, everyone would starve trying to scrape lichen off stuff with their teeth until turning on me and my good idea, and making me lunch I expect. And who could blame them.

Yes I know I am still a meat eater,

Like Bernie, I thought you'd finally gone the whole vegetarian hog. Glad that's all settled now. I'm not sure how well the word "lie" might have been received by my filthy blink department. No...

:)

but I feel happier being a lot less of a meat eater than I was.

Good :)

Maybe a false sense of security...

For who? Animals still on your menu or your stance holding water on um... firm ground... *flee plethora of mixed metaphors*

I will never end up being a vegan, that is a step to far, and often means a life on vitamin supplements.

I don't do supplements. I don't plan to either so I will definitely do my best not to be stupid about it.

We have one in our family, what a misery guts, never a smile from one month to the next, early 20's, never had a boyfriend.

What has having, or not having a boyfriend got to do with anything? Are you saying that is a negative in some way? No wonder she's miserable. I would be too if that's how my family measured me :((

*have long think*

So you don't think it's the company she's keeping, rather than the company she's not? It's just... I bet I could make her smile...

:)

Of course I accept my previous complicity, how could I not.

Oh. I must have missed where you did that.

But you miss the point by straying just a tad into the pious there.

I did? Where?

I certainly never meant to be pious :( My sincere apologies if I was. I did see piety... but *look at no Chris in particular* I thought that was a bit you'd written.

;)

Those were called Giblets

I know. Innards.

Mankind gave up "hung, drawn, and quartered" as a punishment back in the 1800's,

Oh. Wiki said 1782 ;) and it was an English thing I thought with the order of events different because the whole idea was that the "criminal" was still alive for the quartering and dismembering bit.

shame it didn't apply to animals.

Where are we still doing that to animals - except perhaps in some of London's most expensive hotels and restaurants?

If I told you about Bernard Mathews turkey farms some years ago,

You don't have to. Using live turkeys as baseballs kind of sticks out in the memory :[

Chickens have always come minus their feet as people don't eat that part of the bird.

They do. I have too, years ago. Boiled till soft and gelatinous and cats especially luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv them. African ones anyway. Sounds like British cats never had that pleasure. It seems less barbaric to me to eat all the edible bits of an animal, rather than just a few choice bits. It's not as if the rest of the animal is still toppling about somewhere happily divested of that limb or two that's now on your plate.

The first time my mum bought a chicken to roast (after she'd come back to the UK) she got so outraged she stomped back to the supermarket and demanded the "rest of the legs". They thought she thought that chickens had four.

Fish still come with their heads and eyes, and in some restaurants on your plate in that condition as well. Seems it is supposed to prove they are fresh or some such esoteric twaddle.

It's not esoteric. Iffy looking eyes staring up at you from your fish dinner is a sign that you and your bathroom could become intimate friends for many hours to come. That's not very esoteric either.

Biologists say that cold blooded animals do not feel pain in the way that warm blooded ones do. Look, if we take this to the extreme, it can be shown by attaching electrodes that lettuces feel pain if a match is held under a leaf. Turnips and carrots feel pain being puled out of the ground.

More pain than cold blooded animals? More shock too? That's awful.

How would you like to be a potato cut in half and roasted to death etc.

How do you suggest I kill it humanely first?

Any item that is growing will do that. In which case Vegans are cannibals eating live vegetables.

Cooking isn't enough to kill vegetables either?

*good grief blink* I'd best stop eating altogether then

Any thoughts on that one?

Yes.

if you did spend some time in the same room as her you might come to think that to eat something killed for food by an animal lover, might be more humane than food harvested by one who is not.

Sorry no. I can not and will not condone her lifestyle, I find it hypocritical. At least I admit my hypocrisy, she doesn't.

And get reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally tetchy doing so? Yes. I saw that ;)

In any case 90% of people here are quite happy meat eaters. I appear to be the only one here that is prepared to 100% publicly support your stance.

I'm me! :) My stance is completely immaterial to most people. I'm so used to it, it doesn't bother me at all - but thank you I think.

So why self admitted tetchiness?

I was about to post about it. Catching up on the thread distracted me from it and made me post that instead.

It's you and me against the great unwashed,

Oh. I'm very much for the great unwashed though...

we should be working together to repel the infidel boarders, and a pox on them all!!

You must have me muddled up with someone else...

;)

You are entitled to your personal choice

Yea you're right Chris it's all choice ain't it but also is a big part of where you grew up / lived your life , me I'm a county boy , hell even that " hole " (1) Ipswich is faster pace of life than here and that place is only 9 miles away .
You're a " townie " totally different way of life , Rabbits and Pigeons , Grey Squirrels etc are vermin and " fair game to be shot " you and others probably see things different and that's fine but it ain't like Fox hunting , anything that gets shot is a clean kill no peeing around letting the animal suffer like Fox hunting where the Fox is scared S----less before the dogs rip it apart ( Ain't no " sport " and would quite happily punch them people who ponce around in the Red jackets !! )

Not looked down on, just something that some of us would prefer not to do or be involved in.

See above , totally different lifestyles , I prefer mine thanks , hate Ipswich and f-~~~ hate London even more :-) But each to their own , but anyone trying to push their views on me would probably get to use what I used to weld up in the Garrett Anderson building a few miles away :-) , everyone's entitled to a opinion but don't mean ANYONE's opinion is 100% correct does it , even if you have others agreeing with you !!

(1) " hole " should have a 4 letter word starting with s but only get hidden if I put it in ;-)

Oh no.

I had a thought. It just turned up - but outside my edit window.

What about warm blooded fish? And cold blooded mammals? What do biologists say about them?

*prick ear inquisitively - discover it hurts*

I suppose while I'm here I'll comment elsewhere...

Are you saying they aren't people?

Possibly. I thought at first it was that they weren't eaten, but it could be the way round you're wondering, you know... that they're not - for eating them. I hope not... It might mean another "the problem with that thread" when I'm already over-burdened by my rampaging carnage through the vegetable kingdom. It seems a little unfair that just vegans bear that shame when there are well... *accusing stare* ...omnivores amongst us, but ...

;)

Are you saying they aren't people?

Possibly. I thought at first it was that they weren't eaten, but it could be the way round you're wondering, you know... that they're not - for eating them. I hope not... It might mean another "the problem with that thread" when I'm already over-burdened by my rampaging carnage through the vegetable kingdom. It seems a little unfair that just vegans bear that shame when there are well... *accusing stare* ...omnivores amongst us, but ...

;)

Thank you Annie, he asked what the point was and you have so eruditely pointed out his thought process which he confirmed when he asked what the point was. :)
<ed>Annie, you won @ Einstein

I've just finished being power-failured. Five hours of oblivion wreaking havoc in a cupboard looking for candles more substantial than cake ones.

Thank you Annie, he asked what the point was and you have so eruditely pointed out his thought process which he confirmed when he asked what the point was. :)

You're welcome! :)

<ed>Annie, you won @ Einstein

Oh the poor things... This'll set science back a few years...

Thank you for letting me know what you're all stuck with ;)

I've just finished being power-failured. Five hours of oblivion wreaking havoc in a cupboard looking for candles more substantial than cake ones.

That's pretty epic, even by African standards. Do we need to start sending food parcels to London?

Apparently it was epic with a National Grid failure.

Well, it was a good day to bury bad news. Nobody except Annie noticed. And I thought she was north of the river?

Apparently it was epic with a National Grid failure.

Well, it was a good day to bury bad news. Nobody except Annie noticed. And I thought she was north of the river?

Indeed, not a mention on the BBC news pages, and no power outage here, in South London, strange.

Well, the BBC is only part-time these days.

Posted at 18:00 27 Nov
Goodbye

BBC London News
Updates for London have ended for the day but we'll be back at 08:00 on Tuesday with the latest news, sport, travel and weather.

Maybe they got stuck in the tube on the way home and haven't recharged their phones yet?

Edit - bookmark http://ukpower.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/fault-map. And buy a bigger UPS!

And there was me thinking London showed the country the way forward , some words come to mind and they are , Organise , bewery & p#ss up and in a sure you can work out what the other missing words are .
Can't even handle a power cut boo hoo !!!

and no power outage here, in South London, strange.

Croydon was in Surrey with a CR postcode but was amalgamated into Greater London in 1965. Official postal address is still Surrey. I think the power outage was fairly local to Central London,

Postal deliveries, other technical services, and local government administration all have different boundaries. I get my post from Keighley, telephone from Bingley (and I think electricity too), and governance from Bradford.

It is Mark. Into darkness ;-)

Our landlord has all his properties on quantum metres - which is at least 200 families locally who don't manage to get their reports of a power failure logged as a power failure (because we're all condescendingly told we've "probably run out of credit" and left with the distinct impression we're just too stupid to realise it) until our landlord can be persuaded to report an issue with the supply. When something fails somewhere, we all get cascaded off into the dark ages and are always the last to be seen-to even when the fault is reported as fixed.

I did boo-hoo and not handle it as well as I usually would, yes... because I had been about to jab the first of two needles into my other half when we got plunged into complete blackness. All our shops close as soon as the power goes down and I hadn't replaced candles or batteries since the last time so yes - stupid is as stupid does, and that is very much me. How I had to solve the injection issue was to drag my poorly other half down the stairs by the light of a lighter out into the freezing cold, so a neighbour could turn their car headlights on and let me do what was necessary in the beams. If you've ever tried to find a vein while you're shaking with cold and so is your patient, it's not a lot of fun doing it in private, let alone out in the road :/

Gas and electric all comes from the same National distribution networks, but you choose which supplier you buy it from and how much you pay for it.

But is routed through different distribution channels locally, perhaps using gasholders (Keighley until recently) or substations (Bingley) respectively. My last power cut was when the Bingley substation was (locally) submerged in riverwater.

I was amused to discover the same outage advice as you've subsequently posted:

Do not call your electricity supplier. Electricity suppliers sell consumers energy and are not responsible for the power lines that connect to home or business to our network.

In other words, your electricity supplier has no role in supplying electricity. Could we get them under the Trades Descriptions Act?

Plus of course mobile phones.

Do your local cellfone base stations have UPSs?